Earles Lake is slated to permanently disappear. The lake is being drained in the first phase and then the dam will be breached. We don't know what will happen to the current area where the lake is currently and what are the expected environmental and flood impacts. In fact my first posting still stands 30 days later, we still have NOT been informed of any environmental or flood impact studies and if any their results. Green Countrie Village and Earles Lake associations have refused our request for information. Many organizations are involved but do not communicate among them and definitively not to us the neighbors down the lake.
During Irene, a sink hole developed on the top of the dam (earth filled dam). Small but nonetheless a concern. You would expect that we would be informed of any upcoming repairs since we live right by the dam, but no! nothing since.

nobody in Newtown Govt reads this

If you happen to know someone who is working in the area of environment or land use in Newtown township please forward my concerns regarding the impact of draining Earles lake. Thank you

I am sick about the possibility of loosing this lovely lake! I wonder if there isn't any one who knows of a historical significance that can save this beautiful lake that has been around for over 40 years!

Greetings,

The Greene Countrie Village governing board is moving ahead with plans to SELL Earle's Lake and some surrounding property. The GCV board has already signed a non-binding letter of intent to sell the lake and property to "TCFS L.P.," a limited-liability company formed by four people who are involved in various aspects of residential development, including at least one attorney and one portfolio manager.

According to TCFS partners, TCFS was formed to pursue the purchase of the lake and property with the intention of building between 27 and 54 townhouses on the location. TCFS partners said they learned of the property by way of an acquaintance who lives or who lived at Greene Countrie Village. TCFS partners said they approached the GCV council/board in the summer of 2015.

That non-binding letter was signed by the GVC board and by TCFS sometime in 2015, and it was referenced in a 2016 budget presentation given in December 2015. That presentation includes a flow chart showing 5 steps toward the sale of the lake and property OR the conversion of the lake and property to green space.

A meeting to inform the Greene Countrie Village condo owners -- who legally own the lake and the property in question -- was held July 20, 2016, at the GCV clubhouse. At least 80 owners and/or residents attended the meeting. This was the first official notification given to the condo owners that the GCV board is negotiating with TCFS in hopes of selling the lake and property to that group. The condo owners were told by the board president that the board is recommending to them that they should move ahead with its plan to pursue a sale to TCFS.

The condo owners were told by the attorney who is retained to represent the owners (Adam Marcus of Marcus & Hoffman in Media, Pa.) that ballots regarding the question likely will be sent to condo owners within 30 days of that July 20 meeting.

The proposal to pursue the sale to TCFS will require a minimum of 80 percent support from among the owners of the individual condos.

UPDATE: The Newtown Township Environmental Advisory Council's next meeting will begin at 7:30 p.m. Wednesday, July 27, 2016, at the township building on Bishop Hollow Road in Newtown Square, PA. ... Township residents with concerns about the future of Earles Lake on Earles Lane in Greene Countrie VIllage should attend the meeting and ask relevant questions.... To send a question in advance, go to the Newtown Township website Contact Us page at: http://www.newtowntownship.org/contact-newtown-township

I would also suggest attending the planning commission which is jul 28 at 7pm at the township building. The board of supervisors next meets aug 8 at 730pm at the township bldg.

July 27, 2016: Update on proposal by the Greene Countrie Village condo council to sell EARLES LAKE and some surrounding property:

The Newtown Township (Pa.) Environmental Advisory Council met at 7 p.m. today/July 27, 2016, to learn something about the proposal by the Greene Countrie Village condo council to sell Earles Lake and several surrounding acres of land to a development partnership called TCFS L.P.

The Environmental Advisory Council's chairman, Bruce Killen, noted at the start of the meeting that the environmental council had just learned in the past week of the proposal by the condo council to sell the lake and land. The matter was placed on the environmental council's agenda after a citizen had submitted information about it and requested that the advisory council provide an update on matters related to Earles Lake, including this proposal to sell the lake and surrounding land.

Also attending the meeting were the Greene Countrie VIllage condo council president and one member of the council. They said they were there to listen to the discussion about the matter and noted that they did not expect that they would be part of the discussion.

The citizen who asked the environmental council to provide an update on matters related to Earles Lake also attended the meeting.

The proposed sale of the lake and the surrounding land was discussed for about 1 hour and 45 minutes, until just before 9 p.m. The meeting was informational, with members of the environmental council inquiring about a range of topics, including questions about:

--The sale that has been proposed by the Greene Countrie Village condo council to TCFS L.P.

--What the intended buyer (TCFS L.P.) would do with the property after acquiring it.

--What other options, if any, the condo council had pursued in its quest to sell the property to the developer or perhaps to develop it as green space and/or a community park.

The president of the condo council answered some questions about how the council arrived at a decision to sell the property to TCFS L.P. The president spoke of the costs the condo association is incurring at this time as it tries to meet state and federal environmental requirements regarding the lake, particularly regarding the roughly hundred-year-old earthen dam that does not meet current environmental standards. The president noted that a best estimate at this time to pay for the changes and improvements required by regulation is at least $650,000. The president said that amount "likely" would reach $1 million and "could" climb as high as $1.5 million.

The president of the council also confirmed that the council has not had the property in question appraised to determine its potential value on the open market; that the council has not advertised the property for sale or listed it with the Multiple Listing Service; and that the council is dealing with only one potential buyer, TCFS L.P.

When asked, the president of the condo council said that the council had pursued a possible partnership with one non-governmental organization, but then backed away from that discussion when the condo council learned that such organizations, known as NGOs, require matching funds from entities that seek a particular NGO's participation. Such funding, typically, is a dollar-for-dollar match. The condo association does not have funds in reserve to pursue that approach, the president said.

The council president and council member who attended were surprised to learn at the meeting that the Environmental Advisory Council itself has the authority to provide funding similar to the funding that can be provided by non-governmental organizations. Chairman Bruce Killen said that the advisory council can recommend such funding arrangements to the township if a proposed project meets its funding guidelines and the goals of Newtown Township. Chairman Killen mentioned at the start of the meeting that the township's updated Comprehensive Land Use Plan, which awaits approval by the township in early August, reflects, among other priorities, the desire by the township and many of its citizens to preserve existing green space. Chairman Killen said Earles Lake and the surrounding acreage could be of interest to Newtown Township as it pursues its goal to retain open space. In particular, he noted that as a partner in an open-space agreement with Greene Countrie Village, the township could take on and address the liability issues related to the dam. That, of course, would assume an equitable financial arrangement is reached between the parties.

Members of the Environmental Advisory Council expressed a desire to meet with the Greene Countrie Village condo association to discuss options regarding Earles Lake and the surrounding acreage and to provide insight about how those options might work.

The president of the Greene Countrie Village condo association said the association is pressed for time as costs continue to be incurred. The president said, "Our back is already against the wall."

Reminder: Ballots will be sent soon to Greene Countrie Village condo owners, asking them to vote "yes" or "no" on the condo council's proposal to sell the lake and surrounding acreage to TCFS L.P. Last week, the condo owners were the ballots likely would be went within 30 days of a July 20 meeting that introduced the proposed sale to the individual condo owners.

Just returning from a trip abroad, and we, the residents by the lake (not GCV) learn about this selling of the lake for the constructions of condos!!
Thanks to the Environmental Advisory Council for taking part in the discussion and pressing for alternatives to this project. Could you contact us and our new neighbors to get us involved with this? Also as a side note: part of the lake is in Radnor Township, and at the base of the Dam there is a sewer meter station (Radnor Marple Haverford sewer company). These parties need to be involved as well.
Nadine and Harvey Hensley (nadhensley@gmail.com)

Thank you to everyone who is posting! My husband and I also live on the lake and we very recently purchased our property for the sole reason it is on a lake. We are absolutely devastated about the prospect of a building lot to go up where there is so much wildlife. In less than one month we have seen deer, fox, turtles, fish, blue herring, and one person even noted a bald eagle frequents the lake as well. Please keep posting, as while we were initially invited to the meeting to attend as spectators, despite us not being part of the GCV HOA, we were later disinvited by the lawyers that presented at that meeting. Also to add to this, I contacted the HOA's property manager and told her that I am well versed in capital fund drives, and could help establish an endowment that would not only take care of the lake's current issues but also the continual maintenance to elevate the burden on the HOA, and I was shut down (I am sure the board wasn't even told of my offer to assist)! Please know there are a lot of people who are for keeping the lake and will assist as well, but like me they aren't even informed that this is going on. Thank you kindly for continuing to post! If you need anything, please do not hesitate to contact us, your new friendly neighbors Ashley & Kyle Wilson (AshleyLWilson7@gmail.com)

Thank you for your posts Nadine and Ashley. Just for everyone's reference, these are the people in charge of development:

Whitewoods Capital Advisors, LLC
http://www.wwcapadv.com/aboutus.php

Thanks to "SaveEarlesLake" for reporting the reference to Whitewoods Capital Advisors LLC. The information about the firm located at 8 White Woods Land in Malvern, Pa., is appreciated. One of the phone numbers listed for Whitewoods Capital is 610-247-8776.

Brian P. Finnegan, one of two partners listed on the Whitewoods Capital Advisors LLC website, may be the same Brian Finnegan who attended the July 20 meeting at which the condo owners at Greene Countrie Village first learned, officially, about their condo council's plan to unanimously recommend the sale of Earles Lake and some surrounding property to TCFS L.P. (The lake and property are owned by the Greene Countrie Village condo owners.) Brian Finnegan said he is the "operations person" for TCFS.

At that July 20 meeting, the TCFS representatives --- the aforementioned Brian Finnegan and an attorney named Jonathan Sperger, the managing partner of Manko, Gold, Katcher & Fox LLP in Bala Cynwyd, Pa. --- did not share any information about financial backing for the proposal they are making as partners in TCFS L.P. to buy the Earles Lake property and build between 27 (minimum) and 54 (maximum) townhouses on the site. They did say, in response to a meeting attendee's question, that they had not done a market study to assess the viability of their development proposal.

Thanks again for sharing the information about Whitewoods Capital Advisors LLC in Malvern, Pa.

CORRECTION: The lawyer who is a partner in TCFS L.P. is named Jonathan S-p-e-r-g-e-l. ... His last named is misspelled in the previous post. ... Read about Mr. Spergel online at: www.mankogold.com/people-Jonathan-Spergel.html

NOTE TO SeeClickFix.com poster ASHLEY WILSON:

By any chance did you recently buy the house on the lakeside at Earles Lane and Malin Road, the one that faces Earles Lake, looking toward the Greene Countrie Village swimming pool and clubhouse? ... I ask because I recall that the lake was part of the advertising pitch to sell the property. ... The proposal by the condo council to sell Earles Lake and the surrounding property to TCFS L.P. dates to the summer of 2015, according to TCFS and the GCV condo council; and the proposal to sell is specifically referenced in the condo council's 2016 budget presentation, which was made in December 2015. ... FYI.

@Watchdog

Yes that is the property that we just bought! Not only did they use the lake as a selling point to the house (as it is in the listing of the house), but we specifically asked both the realtors and the previous homeowner of their knowledge of the draining of the lake, as we researched the lake prior to purchasing the property and found this forum, and the realtors and the home owner said that nothing has changed since 2011. Specifically, the homeowner said this comes up every few years, but nothing has happened, nor did they think anything will happen. The realtor said they didn't know anything about it (note: one of the realtor's is David D'agostini, the builder/developer building the huge house next to us). Were your notes from Summer of 2015, or budget presentation from December 2015 ever publicized, as they then listed the house in January of 2016? Further, our property (to my knowledge) is the only property that actually extends into the lake. This was stated by the previous homeowner, as well as, years ago GCV had to pay the previous owner for an easement to put up the fence that is around the lake. However, the previous home owner told us that while there is a fence, our property goes behind the fence and into the lake. Another point of noting is part of the dam is in our property too. As I am very upset over this, I have done a lot of research on the conversion of a lake to a building site. There are multiple permits needed to convert this lake, starting with the US Army of Engineers. Also both Radnor (as Radnor's sewer, as well as our property which is in Radnor Twp) and Newtown township need to approve this. And there are about 3-4 other permits that are needed. With both Radnor and Newtown loving their greenspace (the whole reason we moved here!) I will do everything in my power to prevent development on this land. And just worth noting, every single person that I have spoken to regarding the development of this land has said they will also do everything in their power to prevent the development as well.

@Watchdog
Here is the original listing for the property we just bought:
This is a contemporary home overlooking Earles Lake. Home is located in Radnor township in Radnor school district. This property has many options: One: Purchase AS IS and move in right away Second: Renovate home - there is a sketch currently located at the residence on possible renovation options. Three: Build your dream home overlooking Earles Lake. THIS IS A MUST SEE PROPERTY.

I have a hard time believing that Brian Finnegan has no valuing assessment of this project, when his expertise is in risk management, and he has years of experience in project management. TCFS knows full well of the dam liability, and the cost associated with it since GCV had paid Leggette, Brashears, and Graham, Inc. to do a evaluation of its cost. In addition, the cost of breaching the dam did not include restoring the land surrounding the dam. In particular, to our personal concern was the removal of the spillway and the land restoration.
The dam has been classified by the DEP as a High Hazard Dam in 2010. Later in 2011 we received a notice by the Radnor Township Engineer indicated that "there was no evidence of any problems with the dam" and that the study done by the HOA "was done for your protection and as required by state law" . Radnor Township has a copy of the HOA's study regarding the dam.
Everyone we contacted and tried to engage in saving the lake in 2011, was focusing on the dam and we were told that the breaching of the dam and the draining of the lake was a necessity. We were told that once the draining would occur the land would become a marsh land and that American River would help in financing and monitoring its creation.
We have been kept in the dark as to the environmental impact of draining the lake, and of the silt study (during the breaching the silt would drain in the creek and eventually in the Darby creek). Relocation of wildlife was barely mentioned (Ronald Evancho from PA Fish and Boat Commission indicated that the dead fish would stink very badly for a bit!).
Another of our concerns then and today is the increased flood risk should the dam be breached, the storm waters would flow unimpeded into our property and down stream to the Darby Creek. We were told that the lake/dam played no role in protecting us and downstream land from flooding. No legitimate flood study has been done that I know of at this time.
I have asked regularly for GCV to provide this information and any scheduled work. We have never been informed. I received a reply to my last email to Trish DiFabio at GCV on July 25th 2015 telling me that GCV had submitted a proposal to the State and the Army corp and that they were waiting for their approval and should they hear anything specific they would contact me. There was NO mention of considering selling the land and the lake to anyone, whereas, from your posting this all process started in the summer of 2015.
At this time, my husband and I are looking into hiring a lawyer specialized in environmental issues who has had experience with dam issues. Would you be interested in joining us?
Nadine and Harvey Hensley

I posted on this site last night and it is not here. Am I doing something wrong?

I am shocked to learn of the proposed sale of Earles Lake to developers. It is such a beautiful part of our landscape and community. Anyone that has passed the lake during the change of seasons knows just how impressive it is. I often stop just to enjoy a few minutes of bird sighting, listening to the wind in the trees and to enjoy the view of the lake.

I cannot believe that this dreadful plan of destruction and development could possibly be allowed to move forward.Has anyone been in touch with the elected public officials and township(s) involved about this proposed sale? I know they often will retain land as open space. Please keep me informed. I would like to help.

What is the best way to communicate effectively with all concerned? Is there a website or Facebook page? Can we get this information covered by the media? I have not seen anything about this in my local paper The Main Line Times or The Philadelphia Inquirer. Has anyone else?

NOTE TO ASHLEY and KYLE WILSON:

Congratulations on your new home. It is a beautiful location, sitting right on Earles Lake. It is interesting to hear that, according to the previous owner, your property extends onto the lake side of the fence and into the water. That surely is a special location.

I am very new to this conversation about GCV's proposal to sell Earles Lake and surrounding acreage to TCFS L.P. I have just recently returned to Newtown Square. That said, I am very familiar with GCV as my family has owned a unit in GCV since the early 1990s. (I am also old enough to remember swimming in Earles Lake back in the late 1960s, when GCV did not exist. GCV was built in 1971 and 1972.)

My information about the GCV condo council's current proposal to sell Earles Lake and the surrounding acreage is taken from the minutes of GCV condo council meetings that are posted on the secured web page maintained by First Service Residential, the GCV management company (fsresidential.com). The meeting minutes posted on the website are not complete; the most recent meeting recorded there is dated April 2015, more than a year ago. ... Also posted on the site is the 2016 budget presentation made to the condo owners in December 2015. The budget presentation includes a section on Earles Lake and the earthen dam, and where the council was at the time with its plans and where it would be headed in 2016.

Your contact with the GCV on-site manager is Patricia Difabio, Property Manager, at 610-353-2506. Email: Patricia.Difabio@fsresidential.com. ... I believe she has worked at the office for more than 5 years.

The assistant manager is Paul Chmura at 610-353-2505. Email: paul.chmura@fsresidential.com. Paul has worked at the office for 5 or 6 months.

Oddly, this morning/Friday, I cannot access the GCV website hosted by First Service Residential, the site that has the condo council meeting minutes, the budget presentation, and other info for residents of GCV. ... Here are some notes from my previous review of the 2016 budget presentation:

SOME NOTES FROM GCV Budget Review Dec. 18, 2015; document is posted on the Greene Countrie Village website maintained by management company First Service Residential for the GCV unit owners:

Dam Status...

• GCV in a ‘holding pattern’

– Monitoring dam status monthly

– Responding to regulatory requests from

• DEP [my note: Pa. Department of Environmental Protection]

• Army Corps of Engineers

• Breaching & Remediation could cost ~$1MM+

• DEP could decide to force GCV to start remediation at any time

• Prudent to explore alternative solutions (no guarantee of success)

• NGO funding/assistance

– Foundations
– Environmental Organizations
– May require GCV to ‘match’ any contributions

• GCV approached by property developer [my note: this occurred in "summer of 2015," according to the attorney/partner in TCFS L.P. Jonathan H. Spergel, and confirmed by the GCV condo council at a meeting for owners held July 20, 2016. At meeting, TCFS said one of its partners knew someone who lives in or had lived in GCV. That person was not identified, although TCFS and condo council said the person IS NOT/WAS NOT a condo council member. That person told the TCFS partner about Earles Lake and about the fiscal challenges faced by GCV regarding the costs and liability associated with the lake and the dam. ... TCFS partners said they formed TCFS to pursue the purchase of the lake and property. ... At the July 20, 2016, meeting, TCFS and the GCV condo council confirmed they were in the process of negotiating the sale of the property to TCFS and that the process would continue in 2016. ...END my note]

– If successful, will relieve GCV of Breaching/Remediation burden

– Provide additional income

MY NOTE: See chart titled "Development Sequence" in budget review slides. It says that a non-binding letter of intent has been signed (and had to have been signed before the budget presentation was made in December 2015). The chart says a non-binding agreement of sale was in negotiation at the time of the budget presentation in December 2015. Next step is listed as: Unit owner vote and, if passed by owners, a binding agreement.

As I posted earlier, the unit owners were told at the July 20, 2016, meeting that the condo council is UNANIMOUSLY recommending the sale of the lake and the surrounding acreage. The attorney for the condo association --- Adam Marcus of Marcus & Hoffman in Media, Pa. --- said at the meeting that ballots to vote YES or NO on the condo council's proposal to sell likely would be sent to the individual condo owners within 30 days of the July 20 meeting.

Hope this information is helpful

Thank you for your interest in preventing the draining of the lake and the building project on its land. If you have any knowledge on advocating in the media for its preservation, I would love to get your input and help pay for the cost of creating a webpage. Do you have any connection with local newspaper? Now that the process of selling is engaged, we definitely need to get more of the community informed.
For the last evening posting, the last thing I see from you where yesterday (28th) about the contact information for the Whitewoods Capital, is this the one you were asking about?
Nadine

Given the time frame for the vote - ballots to be delivered within 30 days of the July 20th meeting - so by August 19th - it is of the utmost importance for those concerned to take action. Please let me know what everyone thinks is our next step.

I just submitted a News story on the Delaware County Daily Time website, and created a Forum on Topix (a web News site, with a specific Newtown Square page), the Forum is titled: Earles Lake at Risk. It will take up to 72 hours before it is approved: check it out and become registered members, and anyone you think could contribute. This may help in getting other media to notice us.
I find interesting that Watchdog is not accessing the GVC owners page any longer...
Here is what I posted as a News Story to the Del Cty Daily:
Earles Lake and wooded land in Newtown Township to be drained and sold to TCFS LP for the construction of up to 54 Townhouses.
More green space to become another townhouse community. Newtown Township authorization is unclear at this time as the Planning commission meeting of July 28th was cancelled.
Greene Countrie Village Association unanimously voted to recommend selling the lake and land in a July 20th meeting. The individual owners will have 30 days to vote YES or NO (August 19th).
Action is needed to preserve the lake and its surrounding land. Check Posting at SeeClickFix about the draining of Earles Lake for current posting.

Nadine

Wow is all I can say right now! Ok, so #saveearleslake great idea on the facebook page. I created the page and here it is: https://www.facebook.com/SaveEarlesLake/

Nadine- We would be interested if you found a lawyer. Please keep us posted!

@Watchdog - I don't think it is a coincident that the website is down. Thank goodness you have saved all of this information!

Nadine- I have several contacts in the media, and I think it's a great idea to get in touch with them and have them be our voice as well.

Thank you everyone for all of the support. Being an animal lover, I am sick with the comment that the rotting dead fish smell will linger for a few days. Seriously some people are gutless!

Catherine Martin from the County Press contacted me following the news story I posted earlier. The editor asked Catherine to look into it. I didn't have my computer handy when I spoke to her, so I was short on details however, she is checking via this forum the names and information and will get back to me regarding getting a story on the subject. Ashley, if you could email me the contact information in order for me to reach out to other media, I'll try to reach them first thing on Monday.
Thank you Ashley, for the great Facebook page.
A grey Heron just flew over the lake as I am writing this.
Nadine

The new SaveEarlesLake Facebook page is getting some attention. ... This SayClickFix page and the SaveEarlesLake Facebook page should refer prominently to each other with high-visibility web links so everyone stays up to speed on the topic. ... Example: RELATED: www.facebook.com/SaveEarlesLake/posts (and vice versa). ... Just a thought.

...the Great Blue Heron I meant (it is grey..). Updates: Cindy Mehallow from EAC contacted Ashley and I directly to include us in a conference call on Tuesday morning with National Land Trust. Bruce Killen, JS Custer, and Elaine Shaefer (Ward Commissioner in Radnor) were copied on the email exchange. If Watchdog and SaveEarlesLake would like to be involved in this or any other initiatives please don't hesitate to email me directly at nadhensley@gmail.com, I understand that you may not want to use your name or email on this forum or on Facebook.
In my response email to Cindy Mehallow, I had asked her to clarify the township process for building approval and here is her answer:
"I cannot speak for the Township Board of Supervisors, but I can tell you that the general process for real estate development approval is that the developer has to first go through the Planning Board and get their input, which is then passed on to the Board of Supervisors for their final vote. If zoning variances are required, the proposal would have to go to the Zoning Board. The EAC does not grant approvals, we merely provide advice or information to the PB and other governing bodies to consider as they evaluate the developer's proposal.

To understand the various constraints that could govern development on this land, I would advise your lawyer (and you, if you wish) to study the Newtown Township code which is available online at http://ecode360.com/15082328. Relevant sections would be those related to Stormwater Management (Article VII, Chapter 143), Steep Slopes (Chapter 134), Tree Protection (Article 3, Section 104), cluster development and riparian buffers. Deciphering all of these is not for the faint of heart. FYI - The search function on this site is very powerful."

I am not versed in legal documents, but if any of you are, please comment on this. Thought: knowing that TCFS LP is well versed in all these legal constraints, how come they take on this project. How much are they offering to GCV? What is their current financial situation?

My husband and I, will be meeting with Mitchell Burack (Web: www.burackenvironmentallaw.com) early next week to evaluate the benefit and cost associated with pursuing with legal representation. I will report on the outcome on this forum. Ashley, if you don't mind, make the update you see fit on the Facebook page.

Within the past week, notes about the proposal to sell Earles Lake were sent to Peg DeGrassa, Editor, 610-915-2248, with the Marple-Newtown County Press (part of the online Delco News Network), and to the generic news department contact listed on the West Chester Daily Local website at www.dailylocal.com/contact . FYI.

A related note: Any involvement by government agencies and public officials is a matter of public record. Therefore, all documents regarding Earles Lake generated by the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and others are available to view and copy. ... Copies of those documents should be on file with the Greene Countrie Village condo association, either at the office on Earles Lane, with GCV's legal counsel (Adam Marcus of Marcus & Hoffman of Media, or both.

Some contact information for Greene Countrie Village:

Street address: 323 Earles Lane
Newtown Square, PA 19073

Office phone: 610-353-2505

GCV condo council members as of 2016 are:

Blanche Reiner - President
Laurel Craven - Secretary
Ronald Fedora - Treasurer
Allan Breitenbach - Member at Large
Ann Cotton - Member at Large
Joseph Dangovetsky - Member at Large
Sheldon Gantz - Member at Large

GCV / First Service Residential managers on site at GCV:

Patricia Difabio, Property Manager (with GCV for 5-plus years as of 2016)
610-353-2506
Patricia.Difabio@fsresidential.com

Paul Chmura, Assistant Manager (with GCV for 5-plus months as of 2016)
610-353-2505
paul.chmura@fsresidential.com

This was posted on the TOPIX forum (The Web Newsmedia for Newtown Square): http://www.topix.com/forum/city/newtown-square-pa/earles-lake-at-risk/TBD2HNNVPG4PF6FPU#lastPost

Greene Countrie VIllage in Newtown Square, Delaware County in December 2015 entered into a non-binding agreement to sell the lake and 9 acres of land to TCFS LP of Media. TCFS is planning on building between 27 and 54 townhouses (or reselling the land). The earthen dam will require either to be repaired or to be breached (draining the lake). Either of these will be costly. In 2011 the DEP required GCV to act on it. TCFS is a godsend to GCV: unloading their responsibility onto a new entity that may or may not have the financial capacity to tackle the dam issue.
On July 20th, the council of GCV met to unanimously recommend the sale of the lake and land to TCFS. The individual owners will have until August 19th to vote YES or NO on the sale of the property. After this date, the agreement will become binding.
Residents and non-residents should come by and see Earles lake (it is on Earles lane, between Goshen Road and Saw Mill road). This lovely lake has been let go to seed by GCV, but its beauty is intact, and so much could be done to make this a public green space that would be accessible to the community at large. How much public green space do you know of in this area? Our children are driven to and from playgrounds.
For pictures and comments check out the Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/SaveEarlesLake/posts
This discussion was also linked to on the Topix forum mentioned above - be sure and check it out!

Hi Nadine

Could you please add a link to this site from the Facebook page so that others can read more details? Many are not on Facebook.

Interesting choice of words from the author of the article. TCFS would only be a "godsend" if the the lake and surrounding property is preserved! (my opinion)

It looks like we have a good start to spreading the news. Thank you to @Watchdog for all the details you are providing. Another thanks to Ashley for creating the Facebook page and Nadine for contacting investigative reporting from the Press.

I think it is a priority to reach the property owners of Greene Countrie Village about the importance ot the upcoming ballot. I would like them to delay voting on the sale until more is known and alternatives explored.

I sent emails to three unit owners with links to this page and the Facebook page. Would a flyer or mailed piece be effective?

Sorry for the delay in replying; there has been so many updates to our page, I can't keep up!!! WHICH I AM HAPPY TO REPORT!!! I am so thankful that there are others who love Earles Lake as much as we do! So here are a few updates:
1) I added a link to this page from the Facebook page, so everyone can link to this page too.
2) I spoke to Save Marple Greenspace. They were responsible for stopping the sale of the Archdiocese. They are very happy to help us spread the word and gain support. They need someone to write an article of the history/current status of the lake with pictures and a map so they can use it on their sites. I asked Nadine if she could assist with this, but Watchdog you might also be good at this too? Nadine or Watchdog could you head this up? I can assist with pictures, and current information, but unfortunately I am not a great help when it comes to the historic components.
3) #saveearleslake I think a flyer would be great! In fact I just mentioned this to Nadine, as well as, possibly putting up a billboard in my property as it would have great exposure since my driveway is the intersection of Malin and Earles. What do you think?
Thank you again everyone, I think we are gaining some momentum!

Definitely worth looking at a couple of photos that have been posted on the new "SaveEarlesLake" Facebook page. Go to: www.facebook.com/SaveEarlesLake/posts .

One photo shows a view of the lake as seen in 1992 from across the street in a driveway leading into Greene Countrie Village.

NOTE TO ASHLEY WILSON: I like the idea of writing an article about the property's history and its status. That said, I cannot commit at the moment to taking on that task only because I am working on some correspondence that speaks directly to the immediate issue: making sure that the Greene Countrie Village condo association does NOT move forward with its current plan to sell Earles Lake and surrounding acreage to TCFS L.P. (or to another party) at this time.

The condo council has NOT had the property appraised, so the council does NOT know what the property is worth on the open market; and the council has NOT advertised the property as being for sale, so the council does NOT know if other buyers might be interested in purchasing the site.

As stated in the original Declaration of Condominium for Greene Countrie Village (recorded in 1976 by then-owner Fountain Square of Greene Countrie), all "common elements" in GCV belong jointly to the individual GCV condo owners. The lake and the surrounding property are among those common elements.

The Declaration of Condominium also states that while the GCV condo owners may choose by way of a vote to sell some part or parts of the GCV property, that property must be marketed and sold "at a commercially reasonable price."

Common sense says that establishing a "commercially reasonable price" for a piece of property requires, at a minimum, that the GCV condo council 1) obtain an independent appraisal of the property in question, and 2) advertise the property as being for sale through the Multiple Listing Service and in appropriate digital and print publications.

From the FYI department:

---If you are interested in Earles Lake and perhaps other such assets in Newtown Township, you are encouraged to get to know about the Newtown Township Environmental Advisory Council. It is an appointed board whose mission is to research and examine environmental issues affecting Newtown Township and to make recommendations to township planners and supervisors about how to proceed on related matters. Learn more online at: www.newtowntownship.org/government/appointed-boards-and-commissions/environmental-advisory-council/ .

---Newtown Township is in the final phase of reviewing its proposed update to the township Comprehensive Land Use Plan. It is undergoing a 45-day review by the public. The township Board of Supervisors is expected to vote on the updated Land Use Plan in early August (Aug. 8, I believe). Note that the introduction to the updated Land Use Plan includes the following under the heading "Major Themes":

MAJOR THEMES:

"Based on issues repeatedly cited by residents, four major themes arose from the public participation
process:

"1. Preservation of the Township’s remaining open spaces and natural resources

"2. Traffic congestion at the PA 3 /PA 252 intersection and its spillover effects on surrounding roads

"3. The need for trails and sidewalks to enable walking for both recreation and for access to
destinations within and outside of the Township

"4. Development form (i.e., development that is consistent with existing neighborhood form and
character, and a town center that is cohesive, walkable, and aesthetically pleasing)

"The Comprehensive Plan address these issues as well as others commonly cited by residents and
required by the MPC."

You can read and download the updated draft of the Comprehensive Land Use Plan online. Go to: www.newtowntownship.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Comp-Plan-Draft-2-with-maps.pdf .

The Comp Plan you would really want to read is the one that is out for the 45 day review period, http://www.newtowntownship.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Newtown-Twp-Comprehensive-Plan-Draft-3.pdf

I am working on a flyer for owners at GCV and neighbors. Perhaps we could leave a flyer box near your sign for those interested. The flyer and the sign should refer to this site and the Facebook page for latest information and updates. Maybe "Like us on Facebook" ?

THANKS to "Noname" for posting the link to the most recent draft of Newtown Square's updated Comprehensive Land Use Plan. The link I posted is the earlier, second draft (with "Draft 2" in the link).

As Noname said, the correct link is:
http://www.newtowntownship.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Newtown-Twp-Comprehensive-Plan-Draft-3.pdf

NOTE TO ASHLEY WILSON: I have heard that this SeeClickFix.com thread about Earles Lake and plans to sell it has been called to the attention of the chairman of the Suburban West Realtors Association, an organization for Realtors who represent properties in Delaware County (including Newtown Square ad Radnor), Chester County and elsewhere on the Main Line. ... The contact page for the organization is: http://www.suburbanwestrealtors.com/about-us/board-of-directors/ ... FYI.

@Watchdog
Thank you for letting me know. Do you know what specifically is of interest?

SaveEarlesLake: Yes, great idea to putting the flyers by the banner. We can get together (Wednesday?see below) to organize distribution of the flyers. We can have my daughter helping as well.
The banner should be ready by the end of the week.
SaveEarlesLake, Noname, and Watchdog: The environmental lawyer, I had mentioned in earlier post is coming to our house at 9am on Wednesday. You are invited to join us. Ashley who is in Europe won't be here but she is interested in this option. Contact me directly via email (nadhensley@gmail.com) if you would like to attend.
Noname/Watchdog thank you very much for your inputs. I read the Comp Land Use plan and looked at the maps. It will help greatly as many of the recommendations are in line with preserving this green space.
When I started this SeeClickFix in August 2011, it was like throwing a pebble in the water. Several times when I was getting notices (if I wanted to maintain it) I was tempted to close it...good thing that you found it and posted.
Nadine

Note to Watchdog regarding writing an article for Save Marple Greenspace. I have some information, some of which I wrote in this forum on July 29th. I am working on writing some historic of the lake and dam, as far as I know. English is not my first language as you probably already noticed, if you could edit and add information you have that would be great. I have pictures of the dam and lake as well, not going back to 1992, since we moved here in 2000. Thank you for emailing me at my personal email. Nadine

Some history worth sharing:

---Feb. 25, 1969: From the Delaware County Daily Times: "Earlton Inc. will develop 175 acres of the former Gov. George Earle Estate. Earlton Inc.’s plans affect the eastern part of the Earle estate between Goshen Road and Earle’s Lane. They propose about 82 single homes costing about $50,000 on 140 acres and more than 100 luxury–type apartments on 15.8 acres near Earle’s Lake." [NOTE: "Apartments" is correct. They were built in 1971 and 1972. In 1976, the apartments were incorporated by Fountain Square of Greene Countrie, the owner of the property, as the Greene Countrie Village condominium community.] -- SOURCE:
http://webapps.artsci.villanova.edu/nshs/ns/history/bookonline/part_3_12.asp

---FROM Pennsylvania Bureau of Corporations: Fountain Square of Greene Countrie is a limited partnership that dates to Aug. 7, 1975. In August 2016, the partnership remains in "Active" status with the Pennsylvania Bureau of Corporations. The partnership's registration number is 857838. The sole principal of Fountain Square of Greene Countrie is William K. Slater.

---FROM "Life on the Earle Estate" (section 3A of Chapter VI of Part IIII): "There have been many tragic drownings in Earle's Lake. Fountain Square of Greenie Countrie finally fenced the lake in in 1974, after a 13-year-old boy fell through the ice and was drowned." — CITATION:
http://www.historicnewtownsquare.org/newtown-square-history/historic-newtown-township/part-iii-chapter-12-interviews-and-personalities/ .

Thank you for your input Watchdog! Do you know when the section under Earles Lake Association (which own 30% of the lake) was built, and how many units it has?
My son suggested creating a petition online, so here it is. Help it defuse it by signing it and sharing it. Ashley I don't have a facebook page so could you link it to SaveEarlesLake?

https://www.change.org/p/newtown-township-save-earles-lake?recruiter=581218607&utm_source=share_for_starters&utm_medium=copyLink

Thank you @Watchdog for all for of the historical information.
@Nadine great idea!!!! It is now up on facebook with the link! I also posted it on my personal page too! Our facebook page is up to 80 likes, so I think we are definitely spreading the word, and I think our banner will help it too!!

NOTE TO NADINE H. ... Not sure who "Earles Lake Association" is or what it controls or represents. Perhaps one of the 2 following links will help:

---Earles Lake is a "Townhome subdivision built ca. 1992."
Go to: http://www.livingplaces.com/PA/Delaware_County/Newtown_Township/Earles_Lake.html

---"Waters Edge at Earles Lake is an infill townhome subdivision built ca. 1996."
Go to: http://www.livingplaces.com/PA/Delaware_County/Newtown_Township/Waters_Edge.html

Watchdog: Thank you for the information from livingplaces about Earles Lake Association. I remember in 2011, speaking one resident of this subdivision. I got the information about their interest in the lake from him. He said that as part owner they were responsible for 30% of the cost for work on the dam. Since they are a minority, they are following the Greene Countrie Village Association lead. I am curious of their input in the sale process and if they are still part owner.

Radnor township side:
Made a call to Kevin Kochanski of the community Development to get authorization to put a banner. When he calls me back I will also ask him about the township possible involvement in purchasing land and lake with Newtown township. To this effect I also posted on "Community Voice" the following suggestion:
Collaboration between Radnor and Newtown Townships to preserve Earles lake and wooded land

Earles lake and 9 acres of wooded land is slated for sell to a developer. Earles lake is in both Newtown and Radnor township. In an effort to preserve the beauty of the site, the wetland, the wooded land and the flood control it provides, we propose that the two townships step in and negotiate a possible conservation easement.

Thank you for all of you who signed the petition on Change.org, keep sharing the link: https://www.change.org/p/newtown-township-save-earles-lake?recruiter=581218607&utm_source=share_for_starters&utm_medium=copyLink

SaveEarlesLake don't hesitate to contact me via email regarding coordinating the distribution of the flyers.

NOTE TO NADINE H.:

I have only one note related to the 30 percent liability held by Waters Edge, and the note dates to November 2011.

The reference is in the GCV council meeting minutes from the budget presentation it gave to GCV condo owners on Nov. 30, 2011. The actual minutes have the wrong year in the date; the minutes say 2012. ... A note posted with the minutes on the GCV owners website calls attention to this typographical error.

The following information is taken from the minutes for the Greene Countrie Village council meeting of Nov. 30, 2011:

---Grace XXXX says Trish XXXX [guessing this refers to Patricia Defabio, GCV community manager] is working on a grant to help cover costs to repair dam. Some money for this is held in reserves. ...

---Ronald [guessing this refers to Ron Fedora, who is council treasurer in 2016] says about $100,000 from special assessment is held in reserve for draining the lake; says repairs to dam will cost $500,000 to $1 million. ...

---Grace XXXX says, "We are also in communication with Waters Edge; their responsibility is 30 percent." ...

---The reply to a question from an owner about when the Earles Lake dam would be discussed was this: "The May general meeting." [The minutes don't say who gave that answer. ... Presumably, the answer referred to the meeting that would be held several months later, in May 2012.]

Media Update: Nadine & I just finalized the article that we will be distributing. My ABC contact will get it to the right person at ABC. I will keep everyone posted with their response. Also in the process of sending to Save Marple Greenspace. Will keep you posted on that as well.

@Watchdog, when are you sending the notification to GCV re: they need to get the land assessed and marketed on the open market?

Thank you, so what they call Water's Edge in the minutes is Earles Lake Association in other sources. In the email from Trish of July 2015, she states:
Please also keep in mind that the financial burden is born on the Association and a shared percentage of the Village of Earles Lake solely.
From the minutes the 30% corresponds to what we learned in 2011. This would mean that the owners of Water's Edge/Earles Lake Association need also to vote on the proposed sale to TCFS. Does anyone have contact information about Water's Edge association/Village of Earles lake members?

Media Update: Save Marple Greenspace & Beaver Valley Preservation Alliance both shared/posted our information on their pages. Already seeing an increase in likes to the Facebook page, as well as, an increase of signatures on our petition.

@Nadine Hensley - I have addresses for the owners for Waters Edge and Wooded Way.

ANOTHER HISTORICAL NOTE worth sharing:

The Declaration of Cross-Easements, which is part of the original Declaration of Condominium / Greene Countrie Village filed with the state of Pennsylvania in 1976, includes the names of the partners who owned the property that would become Greene Countrie Village. The partners owned the property under the name Fountain Square of Greene Countrie, a limited partnership formed in August 1975.

The names of the partners in Fountain Square of Greene Countrie, in 1976, were:

--William K. Stewart, general partner.

--John J. Dunn, general partner.

--John J. Nugent, general partner.

The Code of Regulations, also part of the original Declaration of Condominium / Greene Countrie Village filed with the state of Pennsylvania in 1976, includes the names of the first council -- the body that steered the affairs of Greene Countrie Village as it was converted from apartments to condominiums.

The names of the members of the first Greene Countrie Village homeowners council were:

--William K. Stewart (also a partner in owner/developer Fountain Square of Greene Countrie).

--Joseph Pricker.

--Mary Macke.

--William K. Stewart Jr. (a son of William K. Stewart).

--Daniel Walker.

...

As noted in a previous post, Fountain Square of Greene Countrie continues to have "Active" status with the Pennsylvania Bureau of Corporations. William K. Slater is listed as the general partner for Fountain Square. The address for Fountain Square of Greene Countrie on file with the Bureau of Corporations is "Greene Countrie Village Earle's Lane Newtown Square PA 17073." ... Presumably, the incorrect ZIP code for Newtown Square is a typographical error. ZIP 17073 is for Newmanstown in Lebanon County, west of Reading, Pa.

FYI.

Got the authorization regarding the banner (under free speech right so no forms needed) however, we need to make sure that it doesn't interfere with traffic and that it is not objectionable to anyone.

Clarification: Water's Edge/Earles Lake Association has a 30% liability regarding the lake and dam, so they are not owners but share at the 30% level the cost of maintaining the dam.

Tuesday, August 9: GCV board is meeting. Bruce Killen Chairman of the EAC of Newtown township asked GCV to discuss and provide answers to the following information needed if he were to go the township to propose any green space purchase initiative:
- A map (showing the land/lake that is being considered for development),
- A price that GCV would be willing to consider for the township(s) to buy it from them (TCFS price offer?)
- How accessible would the green space be? (access road..since the township is unlikely to spend money on a green space that is not accessible to the public)
- The copy of grants already out there or returned (American River, Natural water)
- Matching opportunities already sought by GCV (in addition that the ones that EAC is considering)
- What is GCV timeline (set deadline to make selling decision..)

The Greene Countrie Village owners council is scheduled to meet Tuesday, Aug. 9, 2016, according to council President Blanche Reiner. According to the president, one of the council's attorneys will attend the meeting.

The council president said that she would present to the council members at the meeting questions that have been asked by Bruce Killen, chairman of the Newtown Township Environmental Advisory Council. The chairman's questions relate to the GCV council's proposal to sell Earles Lake and some surrounding acreage to TCFS L.P., a development partnership that wants to build townhouses on the property. The questions by Chairman Killen relate to the basics of the proposed sale, including:

---The number of acres involved in the proposed sale.

---The cost that the GCV council has attached to the total acreage it proposes to sell to TCFS L.P.

---What potential partners might be available to participate in an arrangement to preserve the property in question (e.g., Newtown Township, Radnor Township, Willistown Conservancy Trust, Natural Lands Trust, and others).

---What stakeholders, other than the GCV condo owners, have legal standing and/or a financial interest in the proposal to sell Earles Lake and surrounding acreage (e.g., Radnor Township, property owners whose property abuts and/or reaches into Earles Lake, property owners whose property is downstream from Earles Lake and dam.)

---The GCV council's timetable to consider alternatives to selling the property for development.

Reminder: At the July 20, 2016, meeting for Greene Countrie Village condo owners, association attorney Adam Marcus, of Marcus & Hoffman in Media, Pa., said that ballots regarding the council's proposal to sell Earles Lake and some surrounding acreage would be sent to GCV condo owners within 30 days of the July 20 meeting. To pass, the council's proposal to sell the lake and acreage would need the support of at least 80 percent of the unit owners.

Reminder: An online petition about Earles Lake in Newtown Square, Pa., is posted at Change.org.
Go to: https://www.change.org/p/newtown-township-save-earles-lake .

A GCV owner contacted me via facebook and she wants to not only help with anything we need, but she also has organized a group of GCV owners who are not in favor of selling the lake. I recommended that she join this page and we "join forces" so to speak. I will let her introduce herself, when she posts to this page.

I have been thinking a lot lately about the wealth of information that has come in over the past several days/week. I think it would benefit us greatly to get more organized administratively, so we have all information in one central location. Therefore, I would like to recommend utilizing Google drive, if you are all agreeable. I would like to create a working document of all the key players (and relevant contact info) and information we have, that we can all access. I would also like to recommend that we have ad hoc meetings between us to ensure that we keep this moving and assign f/u activities for each of us. I am just concerned with the number of people involved, coupled with two townships, you really need a driving force to keep it moving. ESPECIALLY, since GCV is very concerned about the ongoing financial strain the lake has on its community. The faster we arrive at a solution, the better it is for all.
One last point I want to add...It was very apparent to me that the ongoing stress of this lake and the financial strain it has had on the GCV community is felt by Trish and the board (Blanche). I want to make sure we continue to stress to them that we are not asking them to just "deal with it" and absorb the cost and burden, but that we are here to work together to find an alternative solution that does not involve developing the land. I think the more they see us as a partner in this process, instead of threat, the more likely we will arrive at our desired outcome.

@Ashley Wilson , I could not agree with you more...especially about "Partnering with GCV". We want a solution that relieves them of the financial burden for the care of the lake and the dam and ultimately preserves the same.

I have never used Google Drive but am willing to become familiar with it. I also agree that we need to keep the momentum going. Let me know what I can do.

I have printed the address labels for the owners of GCV and the surrounding areas. I have purchased envelopes to do a mailing. I am willing to print the flyers when ready. A mailing to GCV alone will cost $88.00. (At some point we may need to organize financing.)

NOTE TO ASHLEY WILSON: The following information regarding "truth in advertising" and law was shared with me to pass along on this thread. You may already know this (and more) regarding advertising.

From the Federal Trade Commission:

Go to: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising

Truth In Advertising

When consumers see or hear an advertisement, whether it’s on the Internet, radio or television, or anywhere else, federal law says that ad must be truthful, not misleading, and, when appropriate, backed by scientific evidence. The Federal Trade Commission enforces these truth-in-advertising laws, and it applies the same standards no matter where an ad appears – in newspapers and magazines, online, in the mail, or on billboards or buses. The FTC looks especially closely at advertising claims that can affect consumers’ health or their pocketbooks – claims about food, over-the-counter drugs, dietary supplements, alcohol, and tobacco and on conduct related to high-tech products and the Internet. The FTC also monitors and writes reports about ad industry practices regarding the marketing of alcohol and tobacco.

When the FTC finds a case of fraud perpetrated on consumers, the agency files actions in federal district court for immediate and permanent orders to stop scams; prevent fraudsters from perpetrating scams in the future; freeze their assets; and get compensation for victims.

@Watchdog...can you email me? My email is AshleyLWilson7@gmail.com

Ashley and SaveEarlesLake: I also agree that beyond this forum which has served in its limited way as a mean of sharing information from anyone interested by this issue, that we could centralize this information in a google drive account that would be accessible by people who provide their email information. SaveEarlesLake contact me directly please so I can provide support for the envelop stuffing and financially contribute to its cost. Please email Ashley and I, the content of the flyer as well.
I am well aware that this forum, opened and not monitored, may seem raw to some. The intention was not to be confrontational, and I echo Ashley in this sentiment. My desire from the start was to get the community affected by the draining of the lake (and now the possible construction of townhouses) informed. Thanks to Watchdog and Noname's postings information has been discriminated that otherwise would not.
Ashley, you opened new ways to think about getting the community informed. SaveEarlesLake, you contributed to direct local involvement.
Whatever our perspective and goal in this issue, this forum is here to add facts that help everyone making an informed opinion. That you be for or against the real estate development of the lake, that you be for or against the option of making this an open green space, that you be for or against draining the lake: your opinion matters. Contribute information that move this issue forward.
At this time, this forum is functioning as in its initial goal: getting information; please keep in mind that some content of conversation or personal contact information may be objectionable by the party involved.
Nadine Hensley

Thank you, Nadine, for for reminding everyone of this forum's goal: getting information. I am glad that you will continue to keep this thread alive.

"Getting information" about the status of Earle's Lake -- and plans by the Greene Countrie Village condo council to sell the lake and some surrounding acreage to an investment/development partnership named TCFS L.P. -- is exactly what I was trying to do less than three weeks ago, in July 2016, when I found your relevant forum, which dates to 2011.

Today, Aug. 5, 2016, there is no question that additional relevant information is known, that additional stakeholders have been identified, and that many more people are paying attention to the situation. Among those people are the condo owners and residents of Greene Countrie Village; residents of other parts of Newtown Square and Newtown Township; public officials with Newtown Township, Radnor Township, and Delaware County; environmental and conservation professionals in the private and public sectors; members of the region's freshwater-fishing community; and several attorneys with demonstrated expertise in land acquisition, remediation and development and experience with the associated local, state and federal regulatory environment.

Many of those people are talking with family members, friends and colleagues about the proposal by the GCV condo council to sell Earle's Lake to TCFS. That this discussion is taking place among so many people is good news. Such attention could lead to an outcome that would satisfy multiple stakeholders, starting with the primary stakeholders -- the Greene Countrie Village condo owners. The GCV condo owners own the Earle's Lake property, they pay most of the costs related to maintaining the lake and its failing hundred-year-old dam, and they are liable for associated environmental fines and fees.

In the pursuit of "getting information," I will add this:

Since July 20, when the GCV condo owners were informed of this proposed sale, little if any new information has been shared about the actual proposal. Granted, some of those details will not be shared at this time for reasons of confidentiality established by the negotiators --- the GCV council and TCFS. That is understandable and routine. That said, members of the GCV council told the condo owners at the July 20 meeting that the council is "unanimously" recommending the proposal to sell to TCFS and that the condo owners will be asked to vote -- yes or no -- on whether the council should continue on its current path. Asked when the vote would take place, an attorney for the GCV owners association told condo owners they should expect to receive their ballots within 30 days of that July 20 meeting.

As of today, Aug. 5 -- the middle of that 30-day window -- the condo owners do NOT have enough information about the proposal to make an informed and financially responsible decision about the council's plan to sell Earle's Lake and the surrounding property.

In addition, the GCV condo owners do NOT know if the GCV council members have enough information to make an informed and financially responsible recommendation to sell.

My hope is that, before any vote is taken, the GCV council members will act in the best interests of the condo owners by distributing to them copies of a written and appropriately detailed outline of the council's plan to sell the lake and the property to TCFS L.P. and why the council thinks it would be financially responsible to do so.

An interesting news article about the economic value of preserving green space in southeastern Pennsylvania, published in 2011 the Delaware County (Pa.) Daily Times, remains available online. The article is keyed to a study titled "The Economic Value of Protected Open Space."

To read the story, go to: http://www.delcotimes.com/article/DC/20101122/NEWS/311229966 .

I share completely your frustration with the lack of transparency. GCV owners even if they are for the real estate development option, could miss on a lot of money. This financial deal may not be the best offer you could get, and without information you cannot evaluate the merits of TCFS's offer.
In addition, owners at GCV should be given an alternative to building on the lake site. If I were an owner I would want to know more on how to keep the lake once drained as a beautiful green space to be enjoyed by all (where ever your condo looks into). I wouldn't be surprised if many owners were attracted to GCV because of its setting.
Over our side of the lake, we are looking for information that pertain to the permit submitted in June 2014 by GCV to the DEP for draining the lake. This permit should include cost estimates and result of studies done on the silt currently present behind the dam, any environmental and flood studies (what will happen during and after the breaching of the dam). Since my repeated requests for this information has been denied and that neither Newtown nor Radnor townships were given a copy, I am planning a trip to the DEP in person (in Harrisburg) to view and copy this information.
Watchdog, I can't thank you enough for posting 3 weeks ago. Without this posting, I wouldn't have known about the sale agreement. By posting, others in the community, including the townships of Radnor and Newtown, were made aware of the probable sale to a developer.
I want to take also this opportunity to thank Cindy and Bruce at Environmental Advisory Council of Newtown township who have taken an interest in this issue and got a conversation started among parties involved.
Nadine

"Getting information" is everything when it comes to things like this -- no matter where one stands in the conversation. For me, your thread on SeeClickFix.com became the right place at the right time to get information and to share information.

The fact that so little information about the proposal to sell the lake property has been shared with the people who will be directly affected by the sale is disturbing.

Likewise, it is disturbing that the minimal information that has been shared has been spoken, not written. Little of substance has been provided in writing -- not by the GCV council and not buy TCFS L.P., the intended buyer. That has generated a number of inconsistencies and inaccuracies during the precious few conversations that have taken place since the GCV condo owners were told of the proposal to sell.

Inconsistencies and inaccuracies don't help the GCV condo owners, the people who own Earle's Lake and the surrounding acreage, and who are being asked and encouraged to sell those assets.

CLARIFICATION: There are 213 (two hundred and thirteen) units in Greene Countrie Village, the condo community that is on Earles Lane and which includes Earles Lake in Newtown Township, PA. (An earlier posting said GCV has 199 units, based on a count done with a property map.)

The number of units is specified in a document that is provided to new owners of condos at GCV. The document is provided by First Service Residential, the company that manages GCV and has done so since since 2010 or 2011.

The reference to the number of units -- included in a section of the document titled "Greene Countrie Village Owners Association -- says: "... 213 residential units of various design that proportionately share in the maintenance and enjoyment of the common grounds."

The number of units at Greene Countrie Village is important. It represents the total number of votes in the GCV Owners Association. One condo unit equals one vote. That is stipulated in the controlling documents that established Greene Countrie Village.

FYI.

There are a couple of units tha have been combined to become a single unit.

Thank you Watchdog for bringing to our attention this article from the Daily Times News of November 2010. If anything the results of the study described in the article ("The Economic Value of Protected Open Space.") are even more clear for Delaware county today as the pressure to build in this attractive area has increased.
Of note, the economic advantage of preserving green space:
- water quantity, quality, and flood control:
"Whether its water quality, quantity, or flood control, the rule is pretty simple -- the bigger the forest or wetland, the bigger the financial benefit.
Overall, the three county's open spaces provide $28.9 million each year in holding water supply (quantity); $7 million in filtering services (quality) and $20.3 million in flood prevention."
- property value:
"Well, if you live in the counties surrounding Philadelphia, that house is worth more, even by the smallest increment, because there is likely open space nearby, according to the study.
"Within a one-mile radius, the closer a home is to protected open space, the more value it captures," the report's authors wrote. "If all of the protected open space in the five-county region were to be eliminated, the total value of the housing stock of the five counties of southeastern Pennsylvania would decrease by $16.3 billion."
That added value also adds $240.5 million annually to the revenues from property transfer taxes the study found."

The study also mentions other advantages such as carbon sequestration and lower cost of health care as people who exercise spend less on medical expenses, and are healthier (physically and mentally).

This study points clearly to the economic benefits of preserving Earles lake as an open green space. Beyond the beautiful environment that it provides to all in the community, it increases your property value (for most of us, our major asset), and it reduces the costs associated with maintaining air quality, and storm water management. Currently the lake and the land around the lake play an important role in absorbing and filtering the water run off (water run off which are also managed with sewer pipes, that cost money to manage). I don't know about Newtown township residents but Radnor residents are paying a yearly fee to the township to manage storm water in addition to a sewer tax.
The cost argument to sell the lake and land to TCFS is not as clear when you take into consideration the cost-benefit of keeping Earles lake (even if it is drained there will be the Saw Mill Run and wetland, meadow in its place).

I live in the neighborhood, and I am totally surprised what they think they can do with Earls Lake.
Reading all these comments, there are many that need to get involved including townships, owners, environmental groups and neighbors. Also reading the comprehensive report. The township does not want to disturb slopes 15-25 degrees, would need 100' buffer from any wet land, take into consideration plus all the wildlife. Also, draining the lake would cause more hard to Darby Creek. What builder would want to build on unstable land. Many obstacles.
Also in the company purchasing has not even done a feasibility study. What I find most disturbing is the secrecy.

Information about the wooded land that is NOT part of the sale: The wooded land that you see from Earles lane, that is above the lake and fenced off the lake belongs to Newtown township. This wooded land that totals 5.885 acres has an access to it from Green Country Drive (not connected to GCV).
(this information was on the Delaware County Public Access web site.)

Thanks, I will try to come to the meeting wed evening to understand

REMINDER: The Greene Countrie Village owners association council plans to hold a special meeting Tuesday, Aug, 9, 2016. The GCV council's attorney is expected to attend.

The meeting date is 20 days into a 30-day window during which GCV condo owners were told they should expect to receive ballots to vote on the council's proposal to sell Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage to a private partnership called TCFS L.P.

Ahead of upcoming meeting, the chairman of the Newtown Township Environmental Advisory Council was to provide the GCV council's president with several written questions about the council's proposal to sell the lake and land. The questions would relate to some basics, including: the total number of acres the council wants to sell; the price the GCV council has attached to the lake and acreage; what people and entities have or might have legal standing and/or financial interests in any discussion about the property in question; and the time available during which the GCV council might consider alternatives to the proposal made by TCFS.

The chairman of the township Environmental Advisory Council would use the answers to those questions to help determine whether the chairman and fellow council members can build a compelling case to recommend to others -- locally and within the region -- that the site should be preserved. Pursuing that goal would be in keeping with the priorities detailed in Newtown Township's newly updated Comprehensive Land Use Plan. It also would complement land-use plans, environmental efforts and quality-of-life goals that are in place in neighboring Radnor Township -- which has a direct interest in Earle's Lake and the earthen dam -- and elsewhere in Delaware County and on the Main Line.

Likewise, others are interested in the lake and its future -- including prominent environmental trusts and activists.

Time could be the most difficult factor in any effort to pursue an alternative. The GCV council's timeline with TCFS, the intended buyer, calls for the parties to sign a binding agreement of sale IF the council's recommendation to sell gets the support of at least 80 percent of the eligible voters (the condo owners). If the ballots are distributed by Aug. 19 (the 30th day after the July 20 meeting), then the clock would start ticking on the deadline to vote. (As of today, Aug. 8, neither the ballot question nor the deadline to vote has been shared with the condo owners.)

The Greene Countrie Village condo owners own Earle's Lake and the surrounding acreage included in the proposal to sell. The condo owners pay nearly all of the costs associated with the lake and the lake's failing hundred-year-old dam. Those costs include ongoing maintenance, scheduled and emergency repairs, insurance, and the price of meeting stringent local, state and federal environmental regulations -- regulations that did not exist when the dam was built along a stream on the old Earle Estate to establish a mill pond.

WORTH SHARING:

GREENE COUNTRIE VILLAGE OWNERS' ASSOCIATION COUNCIL MEETING REQUIREMENTS

---Notification of meetings: Written notice of meetings of the Council shall be given or caused to be given by the Secretary to each member of the council as follows: at least 10 days, but not more than 20 days prior to each regular meeting. at least 5 days, but not more than 10 days prior to each special meeting.

---Notification of special meetings: At least 5 days, but not more than 10 days prior to each special meeting.

---Special-meeting procedures: A special meeting of the Council can be called at any reasonable time and from time to time if requested by the President of the Council or if 3 members of the Council send a written request to the President of the Council to call such a meeting. President shall call such meetings not less than 10 nor more than 20 days after receipt of such request. The president shall designate the time and location of such meetings. No business shall be transacted at the meetings other than as specified in the notice thereof.

NOTE TO GCV CONDO OWNERS: When you receive your ballot on the proposal to sell Earle's Lake and the surrounding acreage to TCFS L.P., be sure to read the ballot question closely. You will want to make certain that you understand what the question is asking before you answer it.

As of today, Aug. 8, the ballot question has not been shared with GCV condo owners. It is likely that the question is still being drafted for and reviewed by the GCV council.

QUESTION FOR GREENE COUNTRIE VILLAGE CONDO OWNERS AND OTHER EARLE'S LAKE STAKEHOLDERS:

Is "Michael Trio," the former township manager of Newtown Township, the same "Michael Trio" who was name was verbally mentioned, on July 20, 2016, as being one of 4 partners in TCFS L.P.?

The reference was spoken by one of the two representatives of TCFS -- attorney Jonathan Spergel and development portfolio manager Brian Finnegan -- at the GCV condo owners meeting held on that date.

As many of you know, TCFS is the partnership that was formed to buy Earles Lake and some surrounding acreage from the Greene Countrie Village condo owners, the people who own the lake and the land. The GCV council has recommended unanimously selling the lake and land to TCFS for an undisclosed amount of money up front and some transaction fees to be generated by the sale of each of the 27 to 54 townhouses that TCFS has said it might build on the property if and when it gains ownership of the site.

Thanks for any information regarding the identity of the "Michael Trio" who was mentioned as being a partner in TCFS L.P.

See https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-t-trio-aicp-a5492810 .

Yes. That is what has been uncovered.

Thanks, "noname." ... The question (from interested others) has come up in connection with the worry among some Greene Countrie Village council members about whether Earles Lake and its surrounding acreage, all owned by GCV, could be identified as a "brownfield." The GCV council members are worried about the costs associated with remediating the property if, in fact, it becomes deemed a brownfield by the EPA.

What the GCV council members clearly do NOT know is that the federal government, via the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, invests significantly in the repair, remediation and restoration of brownfields. It is in the interest of the nation to identify brownfields, fix them, and convert them to productive uses -- preferably economically beneficial uses.

Brownfields are properties that, over time and because of previous uses, have become tainted by one or more contaminants at levels that exceed federal standards. The contaminants can be virtually anything that occurs in "excessive" concentrations -- from cancer-causing PCBs to hair gel and other personal-care products.

What the GCV council members don't seem to know is that brownfields are routinely revived by savvy developers and investors, and converted to provide homes for all kinds of new commerce. Often, the brownfields are converted to acceptable environmental standards -- and then sold to the highest bidder on the open market. If you like, you can invest in companies and mutual funds that specialize in the successful redevelopment of brownfields, and you can reap unique tax benefits by doing so.

Developers -- smart developers, anyway -- understand the economic potential and financial reward that a brownfield can hold. Developers with experience in brownfield development are familiar with the relevant regulatory agencies and have firsthand knowledge of how to navigate that regulatory environment, Doing so is a bit more complicated than moving heavy equipment around a brownfield site, but it is just as routine. Indeed, brownfield development, as regulated by the EPA, dates back to 1993. It's been figured out. The application forms are available.

For Greene Countrie Village, this question relates to Earles Lake and several surrounding acres.

Earles Lake, for those who are unaware, was established as a mill pond more than a hundred years ago on what was the George H. Earle estate, known as Earlton. Earlton (home to a future governor of Pennsylvania) was a self-sustaining concern of more than 1,000 acres in what today is Newtown Square. The mill pond was created by erecting an earthen dam on a small creek on the property (no permits were required back then), and it was part of the estate's woodworking and logging operations.

Today, what is known as Earles Lake has some very old timbers and end pieces on the bottom and a hundred years of silt from the creek -- and whatever was in that silt when it washed into the pond. (Also on the bottom may be an old school lunchbox that, 48 years ago, was tied to a solid-metal "eye" that was attached to a large rock or a broken slab of concrete ... but that's another story.)

What is in the silt on the bottom of the lake? Could be anything -- from the chemicals in lawn and plant fertilizer that washed from homes onto streets and into storm drains and then into the creek and on to the lake ... to decaying animal carcasses ... to truckloads of soil toxic soil that was dumped unknowingly -- or knowingly -- once upon a time.

As a low-flow pond -- it is not stagnant -- Earles Lake most certainly has something in it that can be construed as being a contaminant. The contaminant or contaminants in Earles Lake and the surrounding acreage will be categorized as being Physical, Chemical, Biological and/or Radiological. Those suspected contaminants will have to be identified, tested, removed carefully and disposed of properly -- under the watchful eyes of federal state and local regulators, in that order.

All of those things can be done -- at a cost, or course. And they can be done profitably. Profitably enough for a developer or investor to turn a brownfield into a lucrative field of dreams.

Greene Countrie Village council members -- and the GCV condo owners who own these assets -- should take a much closer look at what they have before they sell to anyone.

---Learn more about brownfields and their contaminants. Go to:

https://www.epa.gov/wqc/contaminants-emerging-concern-including-pharmaceuticals-and-personal-care-products .

Given the past use of the pond, I can't see how the ground at the bottom of the lake and the silt are contaminated to the point as being classified as brownfield. Brownfields are usually connected to heavy industrial or agricultural use in the past. The Earles estate included farming as a self sustaining activity (the gentleman farmer type of the Main Line area). The lake until 1974, had been used as a recreational place for a very long time (fishing, swimming, ice skating), I would hope that no dumping of contaminant occured (excepted for a very rusted lunch box).
In 2011, Leggette, Brashears, and Graham, Inc. did a silt study of the lake. I know that, because I saw them doing it. So since 2011, GCV and L,B,and G know if the silt is badly contaminated. If it were highly contaminated, it would have been GCV and LBG, inc's responsibility to alert the DEP/EPA. As you wrote, the water is regularly being churned as Saw Mill run gets into the lake at a high volume whenever there is a heavy storm, but probably not very deeply. Indeed, the silt depth must be pretty high in particular at the spillway and pipe levels. This said, when the dam will be breached, the results of the silt study will determine if the silt will need to be trucked away or can run downstream into the Saw Mill run and further down to the Darby creek. Again, at this time GCV knows if they need to truck away the silt and the scope of the work estimated by L,B,G, inc. including its estimated amount. So, I believe that the cost that GCV has indicated includes an estimate of the amount of silt that needs to be trucked away.
GCV owners can ask to see the detail cost of breaching of the dam. As owners, they are entitled to know exactly what is the association asking them to pay for.
Trucking away the silt doesn't mean that the silt is highly contaminated, it means that the silt formed over years of weed, leaves and other organic material forms a muck over time. The muck harbors nutrients that cause algea and deteriorate the water quality. In the past the muck has been dredged and then trucked away (either still wet or once it has dried. Today, they are more eco friendly methods. Let's hope that this will be considered given that it is also cheaper. http://lakeandwetland.com/services/dredging-sediment-removal/

Well said. The actual use of Earle's Lake, when it served as a mill pond on the self-sustaining Earle Estate, was not harsh or invasive. As you note, later uses were even less harsh -- mainly fishing, swimming, ice skating, and painting by artists and art enthusiasts.

Many Greene Countrie Village condo owners who attended the owners meeting on July 20, 2016, to learn about the proposed sale of the lake were quite surprised when the GCV condo council's presentation included a slide that said: "Site is a potential Brown Field, which could significantly impact cost estimate for Breaching" the dam.

That same presentation -- designed to make the case for selling Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage to investor/developer TCFS -- reminded everyone about what the GCV condo owners had voted for in 2012. The slide is correct in saying: "In 2012, owners voted to ... Decommission Earle's Lake and convert the land into a passive recreational facility for use by the Greene Countrie Village Owners Association."

Since then, the current GCV condo council says, it has been pursuing how to achieve that goal of converting the site into a "passive recreational facility. ... In that time, the condo council has said, it completed one application for a monetary grant from one nonprofit organization. That application was made to American Rivers in Washington, D.C., according to condo council members. The application was rejected. ... According to the GCV community manager, who completed the grant application over the course of 6 (six) months, the application was rejected because the creek that feeds Earle's Lake is not saltwater. ...

The Greene Countrie Village condo council says it met in a special session on Tuesday, Aug. 9, 2016, to talk about the council's plan to sell Earle's Lake and some other property to a developer called TCFS. The council wants to sell the property for a small amount of cash up front ($250,000, although that number is a moving target) and a transaction fee of less than 2 percent that would be triggered sometime later by the sale of each individual townhouse (assuming they are built). The primary appeal of the proposal to the GCV council members is the sale itself. The GCV council wants to unload the property because of current and projected costs related to removing a failing dam and bringing the lake site into compliance with local, state and federal environmental regulations.

Today, Aug. 12, the GCV condo owners have heard back from the condo council for the first time since the owners were invited to a July 20 meeting to learn about the proposed sale of the lake and the surrounding acreage. The invitation to the July 20 meeting started this way: "The Council has scheduled a special meeting of the Greene Countrie Village Owners' Association ('the Association') to discuss the proposed sale of Earles Lake and Dam."

The follow-up correspondence of Aug. 12 from the GCV council via First Service Residential, GCV's hired management partner, starts with a very different emphasis. It starts this way: "As part of the GCV Council’s commitment to keep all unit owners informed about the proposed remediation / development plan for Earles Lake, ..."

The change of emphasis -- from "proposed sale" to "proposed remediation / development" -- is significant and telling. GCV condo owners should ask their condo council why the phrasing was changed and what it means. Make no mistake: The change is there because one or more attorneys want it there.

The update posted Aug. 12, 2016, about the Greene Countrie Village condo council's plan to sell Earle's Lake to a developer (TCFS) includes at least one mistake in the language it uses. The mistake, noted below, indicates that the update provided by the GCV council was not carefully written or carefully reviewed.

The update includes the following:

"The GCV Council remains firmly committed to this plan as the best opportunity to:

---"Address the concerns of the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection as well as the Army Corps of Engineers (which could incur massive fines if not addressed); ... "

The error in that statement is the use of the word "incur." The statement, as written, means that the Army Corps is the entity that would be fined. Whoever wrote the statement used the word "incur" incorrectly; and whoever reviewed the statement (presumably one of attorneys hired by the GCV council) did not catch the mistake. This suggests carelessness on the part of the GCV council.

The previous statement by the GCV council continues with the following regarding the council being "firmly committed to this plan as the best opportunity to:

---"Allow GCV to avoid the significant costs associated with breaching the dam and remediating other environmental concerns which could arise; and

---"Provide significant funds which can be used to address any of the severe financial issues facing GCV."

Note the reference to "funds which can be used to address any of the severe financial issues facing GCV." That reference is very different than what the GCV council told the condo owners at a meeting on July 20, 2016. That meeting was the first -- and, so far, only -- presentation to the condo owners about the GCV council's plan to sell Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage. During the meeting, owners asked what the money generated by the proposed sale would be used for. Members of the condo council stated specifically that:

---The money would be used to pay for the cost of community maintenance and repairs; and
---The money would NOT be used to reduce the monthly fee for services paid by the individual condo owners.

The Aug. 12 update from the GCV council (via First Service Residential, the management company) says the money generated by the sale of the lake and some property "can be used to address any of the severe financial issues facing GCV." The means the money could be used for something other than community maintenance. That something other could be virtually any "financial issue facing GCV" -- including paying down current debt; using the funds to qualify for new debt; and paying more for services provided by hired personnel and contractors, including First Service Residential.

So far, the information the GCV condo council (and by TCFS L.P., the intended buyer of the lake and property) has been minimal and has been either intentionally or unintentionally vague. GCV condo owners and their respective attorneys should read this latest update carefully. Likewise, the condo owners should demand that the full Agreement of Sale and associated documents be made available for their review BEFORE any vote is taken on the GCV condo council's proposal to sell the lake and the surrounding property.

Regarding the language in the Aug. 12, 2016, correspondence from the GCV condo council to the GCV condo owners, another inaccuracy must be noted.

The correspondence states the following:

"Once the Agreement of Sale is fully executed, the Board will then be sending out notice of a meeting and vote by the community to approve the Agreement. If 80% approval of the community is not obtained within 90 days of execution of the Agreement of Sale, then the Agreement will be automatically terminated."

The inaccuracy is in the first sentence: "Once the Agreement of Sale is fully executed ..." "Executed" means "carried out or put into effect." In the context of the GCV council's correspondence to the GCV condo owners, "executed" is the wrong word to use. One may guess that the condo council meant to say "Once the proposed Agreement of Sale has been drafted, revised and finalized by GCV and TCFS ..." But that is just a guess. It is NOT what the correspondence says. (Ask any attorney.)

Again, assuming the incorrect word usage was included by mistake, the fact that it is in the correspondence regarding this proposed sale of property indicates that the correspondence did not get the careful review it needed -- not by by the GCV council and management and not by the legal counsel hired to represent the Greene Countrie Village Owners' Association.

The only other possibility is that the GCV council, management and legal counsel DID, in fact, carefully review the correspondence before it was issued -- and approved it. If that is the case, then the correspondence as written says that the GCV condo council is trying to sign an Agreement of Sale with TCFS -- before the council sends the question for a vote by the condo owners. ... The GCV council does not intend to try to do that, right? ...

In addition to the wording of the Agreement of Sale and how it is explained to the owners, there is the concern that the green alternative has not been presented. The owners ought to learn about the green space option, and the community willingness to help in finding financing for the project.

Another major issue that the owners need to discuss is the feasibility of building on a former lake. TCFS or any other developer will need to get permits and zoning (variance?) from the townships. I recall that in 1969, there was a major controversy about the number of units that Earlton, Inc. wanted to build on the land. The compromise was a smaller number of units. Today, if GCV sells the lake and land to a developer, it will be against that original building permit. I am going to look more into this, if anyone has this information already don't hesitate to post it on SeeClickFix or email me directly (nadhensley@gmail.com).
Nadine

NOTE TO NADINE: The following may help a little regarding the uproar about the number of units originally planned for the apartment complex on Earle's Lane that later became Greene Countrie Village:

The text that follows is from a one-page summary of the history of the property. The summary is provided by FirstService Residential, the company hired by GCV to manage the property. The summary is included in booklet of "welcome" information to those who buy condos in the community. The first page of the booklet is signed by Michael A. Mendillo, who was president of FirstService Residential's Mid-Atlantic region when the booklet was published. Today, in 2016, he is listed as president of the company's East region.

BEGIN TEXT OF SUMMARY:

"Greene Countrie Village was originally the estate of George H. Earle. ... The estate was known as Broad Acres. ... [T]he whole estate consisted of about 1,000 acres.

"In 1963 a fire destroyed the two connecting mansions. [One mansion was built in 1769, the other in 1900. They were connected by a gallery.] In 1965, 470 acres were sold to Arthur W. Binns & Associates. In 1967, the Newtown [Township] portion was subdivided and purchased by Richard and Kenneth Butera, who planned to develop a residential community of single-family homes and about 700 apartments.

"Long-time Newtown Square residents made strenuous objection to the apartment concept and after much dissension, the Board of Supervisors decreased the number to 300. The project got under way in 1969 and soon became a highly desirable enclave, complete with tennis court, swimming pool and clubhouse for social activities.

"In June 1976, what was then known as Fountain Square Apartments was converted to Greene Countrie Village Condominiums, which now comprises 213 residential units of various design that proportionately share in the maintenance and enjoyment of the common grounds."

NOTE: The total number of units in GCV -- referred to as 213 in the summary -- may not be accurate as of 2016. Several units have been combined to make one larger condo. For tax purposes, it is possible that the combined units are still counted as two separate tax parcels. That can be checked with the township or county tax office.

Thanks Watchdog. Very interesting, this would mean that the cap of 300 is in the permit given by the Board of Supervisors. Is the 213 units (or even taking the 199) of today GCV condos phase one of the construction? Would the added units in Earles lake/Water's Edge constitute, phase 2 of the construction? How many units are there in the Earles lake/Water's Edge? If we add the two phases together, there can't be more than 300 units as per the permit.

Hello I am a resident of GCV and very interested in all of this. I am personally against this sale and agree with all of you here. @Nadine Hensley - you are correct they are not giving us a green space option at all or looking for alternatives to selling. I too do not understand how they are going to build on this space.
Has the google drive been set up yet? What can we do to help?

Welcome @ taxpayer that cares! I also am an owner at GCV. I have watched in dismay these past
few years at the changes in the community. I am speaking now because GCV owners are facing a serious decision that ONCE MADE CANNOT BE UNDONE.

GCV Council should be considering EVERY possible option to retain our asset- the lake and the land. Some options have only recently come to light. There are at least 2 land conservancies that are willing to work with GCV to help repair the dam and preserve the open space.Newtown Township Environment Advisory has offered to assist. Grants and private funding must be explored. These possibilities should be fully researched so that an informed responsible decision can be made by the unit owners at GCV.

The Declaration of Condominium specifically states that the unit owners must agre to sell any property. A vote has NEVER been put to the unit owners to see if they are interested in selling the lake.

IF the unit owners VOTE to sell the lake THEN Council shall sell the property at " a commercially reasonable price." This price is determined by a PROFESSIONAL APPRAISAL and the OPEN MARKET.

It is irresponsible and negligent to sell the lake without knowing if the unit owners want to sell, what the land is worth and what the open market will bear.

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SaveEarlesLake, Did you have an issue earlier when posting? This forum is self monitored and no content should be blocked. Email me if the problem persist.

You make the right points, #SaveEarlesLake. This Greene Countrie Village condo council has NOT done the basics: It has NOT had the property appraised by an independent appraiser in its current condition (with regulatory challenges presented by the dam) or in its "improved" condition (as if the regulatory challenges were addressed and/or eliminated). And, the GCV condo council has NOT advertised the lake and the surrounding acreage as being for sale -- so no one knows that it IS for sale. ...

This property is located primarily in Newtown Township and partially in Radnor Township -- a highly desirable part of Delaware County and the Main Line. Yet, the GCV condo council wants to sell the lake and the acreage (they say "about 5 acres") for only $250,000 in cash up front and the promise of a transaction fee generated by the sale of each of some 27 to 54 proposed townhouses. (For comparison purposes, consider that less than a hundred years away from the lake, a well-known contractor is putting the finishing touches on a home valued at more than $2 million that sits on much less space.)

If the Greene Countrie Village condo council wants to sell the lake and the land -- to anyone for any reason -- it is required by the GCV founding regulations to sell the property with the condo owners' approval and sell it at a "commercially reasonable price." ... A commercially reasonable price is NOT a matter of accepting a single unsolicited offer (no matter how nervous condo council members are about getting letters from state and federal regulators). At the moment, this condo council is pursuing the sale of GCV community property in a way that violates the basic regulations of Greene Countrie Village. The council should be stopped now.

@ALL I have spoken with several attorneys regarding all aspects of this process. Specifically, for the homeowners of GCV, if you want to hold up the vote, and thus the sale, you can hire an attorney to file suit against the board. They will then not be allowed to move forward with the vote, as there will then be a pending legal suit against them specific to this vote. Unfortunately, it sounds like despite multiple residents bringing this to the board's attention, the board is ignoring this complaint and proceeding forward. Per the lawyer I spoke with, this is the only legal recourse you can take at this point. As multiple people within the community have contacted me directly, you should reach out to your neighbors (as I know there are multiple people who are very angry at not only the sale, but also the GCV Board and Property Manager), and collectively file suit against the board to hold up the vote. Not only will this unify your request, but it will also split the cost of doing so. If you are to move forward with this, get someone to spearhead it to get it moving and act fast!

Sorry one last point...I work with multiple townships (disclaimer I have not worked with Newtown). While the original permit could have been for 300 units, permits are normally not transferable btw owners:) So it may be irrelevant what the original permit approved. Also worth noting, the development would need to be on the Newtown side of the lake (if it even gets that far) as Radnor is not zoned for multi-family in that area, only Newtown. The draining would require permits from both townships, but the building permit would only be required from Newtown.

What about the attorney that is retained to represent the owners of Greene Countrie Village - Adam Marcus of Marcus & Hoffman in Media, Pa ?

Ashley, If I understand this correctly.
The original permit was for 300 units, however, if you sell off part of the land (the 5 acres of the lake) the new developer wouldn't have to limit itself in terms of number of units as a total.
If I recall that would still mean a limit of 27 units, since the build-able acres are around 2.4 acres and the township authorizes 10 units per acre.

@Nadine I don't think it is limited by "build-able acres". Meaning if they have 5 acres, they could build 50 units, on only 2.4 acres of build-able space. What I was speaking to was in regards to the comment about the remaining units from the original 300 unit permit. For example, if 225 units were built under the original permit, and GCV sells of (hypothetical) 8 acres of land, and that land is zoned for multi-family, the new owners could apply for a permit of 80 units. While this exceeds the original 300 unit permit, the permit is typically non-transferable. However, it does not mean that the township will approve the request. Fortunately, the proposal is to purchase under 6 acres of land, but I don't believe they will be limited by the build-able acres.

Thank you, I understand better why the number of up to 54 townhouse units of the TCFS proposal.

A note about the "buildable" area:

During the July 20, 2016, presentation made by TCFS L.P. to the Greene Countrie Village condo owners, TCFS partner Brian Finnegan, who identified himself as the "operations guy" for the partnership, said specifically that TCFS has "identified 2-point-7 (2 and seven-tenths) buildable acres" within the total acreage TCFS hopes to buy from GVC.

Mr. Finnegan also said that TCFS would need to get approval to build at least 27 townhouses in order for TCFS "to proceed" with the proposal it has made to the Greene Countrie Village council.

At the same meeting, TCFS partner Jonathan Spergel stated that the TCFS project would include a minimum of 27 townhouses and a maximum of 54 townhouses.

As of today (Aug. 21, 2016), the ballots for the vote on whether to sell Earle's Lake and surrounding acreage to TCFS L.P. have NOT been sent by the condo council to the individual condo owners. An initial target date of Aug. 19 to issue the ballots was not met by the condo council primarily because of condo owners' questions and concerns about the proposed sale. The questions and concerns were expressed July 20 during a formal presentation by the GCV condo council and by TCFS L.P.

Since that July 20 meeting, the GCV condo council -- under the signature of GCV community manager Patricia "Trish" DiFabio, of First Service Residential -- issued a letter which, according to the writer, addresses the concerns and questions raised by condo owners. The first of 5 items listed in the letter says:

"MINIMUM PAYMENT: The minimum direct payment to GCV ($250,000) has been clarified and a more detailed schedule for payments presented. Remember, this $250,000 minimum payment is in addition to the costs for breaching of the dam and remediation of the lake bed (estimated to be at least $600,000)."

GCV condo owners need to remember that: The "Minimum Payment" from investor/developer TCFS L.P. to Greene Countrie Village to buy Earle's Lake and surrounding acreage is $250,000 -- period. As of today (Aug. 21, 2016) that figure is the ONLY figure that has been shared in writing with the GCV condo owners -- the people who own the lake and the land.

Reminder: GCV condo owners will need to scrutinize any proposed Agreement of Sale that is presented by the GCV condo council, and the GCV condo owners will need to challenge the proposed Agreement of Sale aggressively. Doing that will ensure that GCV condo owners will vote intelligently about whether their condo council should continue to pursue the sale of the lake and the property to TCFS L.P. As of today, the GCV condo owners do NOT have the information they need to vote intelligently on this matter.

Speaking of voting ... GCV condo owners should refresh their memories about how their individual votes are counted. The details are spelled out on Page 19 of the Declaration of Condominium / Greene Countrie Village, which was made Aug. 31, 1976. (Each owner receives a copy of the Declaration of Condominium when the owner buys a unit. Copies of this document should be on file in the GCV office in the clubhouse.)

The key point related to voting is this: Each Unit gets one (1) vote in condo association matters. However, each vote does NOT carry the same weight. The votes are weighted differently, based primarily on square footage.

The assigned weight per Unit ranges from a low of 0.272 for a smaller Unit to a high of 0.669 for a larger Unit. (Note: That range is for single Units as they were originally designed. The range does not include the weights assigned to the handful of adjacent units that have been bought and combined into a single unit by a single owner. One of the combined Units, for example, has a weight of 0.777.)

The full list is on Pages 15 through 19 of the Declaration of Condominium. Every GCV Unit is listed there. ... The list shows the Building Number, the Unit and Dwelling Designation, and the Percent Undivided Interest in Common Elements. ... The latter -- the Percent Undivided Interest -- is the "weight" of that particular Unit's vote. (It is also the percentage of ownership interest that the Unit has in the common property. That means it is the percentage that determines an individual owner's monthly condo association fee.)

Taken together, the Percent Undivided Interest in Common Elements adds up to 100 percent ownership. So, taken together, the total of the weighted votes is 100 percent.

Just got our property survey in, and we own quite a bit of land in the lake!!!!

@Ashley Wilson Should you notify Greene Countrie Village that they may not sell your portion of the lake?

Glad to hear that your survey confirms what you had been told about the property -- that it DOES include land that is actually in Earles Lake.

Your survey also confirms that the Greene Countrie Village condo council and its legal counsel have NOT done their homework regarding the property the council wants to sell to TCFS L.P. Likewise, one has to wonder what homework has been done by TCFS.

The following bears repeating: The property that the condo council is trying to sell is owned by the Greene Countrie Village Owners' Association. The association is made up of all of the GCV condo owners. The condo owners have a legal right to sell GCV "common elements" -- including property -- if they choose to do so. They also are obligated by their own controlling documents to obtain a "commercially reasonable price" for any common element they choose to sell.

The proposal recommended unanimously by the condo council -- to sell Earles Lake and some surrounding acreage -- does NOT reflect a "commercially reasonable price." The condo council has not done the preliminary work that is required to determine what that price is. Therefore, it is reckless for the condo council to continue to pursue this sale.

NOTE TO NADINE: The petition you started at Change.org is doing well -- with 582 supporters as of Wednesday, Aug. 24, 2016. ... If you are able to edit the intro to the petition, you might want to delete the reference to "Aug. 19." That was the target date for ballots to be sent to condo owners based on the July 20 meeting for GCV condo owners. Since that meeting, the GCV condo council has asked TCFS for some minor revisions to the preliminary proposal to sell the lake and the property. A subsequent letter from Patricia "Trish" DiFabio that was sent to the condo owners says that ballots will be sent to GCV condo owners after TCFS has reviewed the proposed changes and -- presumably -- agreed to them. ... Just a suggestion. ...

NOTE TO ALL READERS: Be sure to sign the petition. Go to: https://www.change.org/p/newtown-township-save-earles-lake .

Does anyone have access to the GCV Deed of the property? Or, the address, folio number or map number?

This might help: The initial mortgage related to Phase 1 and Phase 2 of GCV is recorded at the office of the Recorder of Deeds of Delaware County (in Media, the county seat, I would guess) in Mortgage Book 2816, starting on Page 815. The mortgage was with FML Financial Corporation.

The specific surveys for the two tracts of property (Phase 1 and Phase 2) are officially described in the records by Cassway/Albert Associates. Both descriptions are dated March 10, 1976, with a revision for each filed April 6, 1976. The Phase 1 tract is 37.8461 acres; the Phase 2 is 17.3159 acres.

A professional surveyor with the county or in private practice, using computer mapping software, will be able to plot the coordinates on a map to show the specific outline of the GCV property.

Note: Cassway/Albert MAY be the firm listed at 1528 Walnut St # 1100, Philadelphia, PA 19102.
(215) 545-4900. ...

Thank you @Watchdog. I am actually more interested in the verbiage in their deed, and not so much about the lot lines. I have recently learned some information regarding how a deed is worded with respect to waterways. If anyone has access to (which I believe members of GCV should have access) can you please send me a copy? TIA

Can someone please send me the bi-laws for GCV? Here's my email: AshleyLWilson7@gmail.com. TIA!

GCV Community has there been any update? @Watchdog, do you have the documentation regarding the sale of property with respect to the required community's endorsement, and assessment of fair market value? If so can you send to my email? (It's listed in the above post).

No update at all since the letter we received on 8/12 about the updates to the agreement of sale.

WORTH MENTIONING: The Greene Countrie Village office in the clubhouse will be closed Thursday, Sept. 22, 2016, because representatives from the management company's regional corporate office will be at Greene Countrie Village to meet with the on-site manager (Patricia "Trish" DiFabio). Whether GCV's legal counsel will attend the meeting is not known. Likewise, it is not known if Earle's Lake is on the meeting agenda. ... No announcement about this meeting (or about the closure of the condo office for the day) has been made to the GCV residents. ... The management company is FirstService Residential, a real-estate and property-management company based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and Dania Beach, Florida.
Details: www.firstservice.com/our_company/corporate_information/default.html.

As of today (Sept. 22, 2016), no ballots have been sent to GCV residents regarding the GCV condo council's proposal to sell Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage to a partnership called TCFS LLC. When the condo council's plan to sell the lake and property was first announced to the GCV condo owners, the council said ballots would be sent to condo owners no later than Aug. 19, 2016.

Is the lake private property? Can local residents use the lake and surrounding property for recreation like fishing or walking>

@Kevin, yes the lake is private property. The land that the lake is on is mostly owned by GCV, and I own a corner as well. GCV put a fence up around the lake to prevent people from accessing the lake several years back due to the liability associated with public access.

UPDATE ABOUT THE EARLE'S LAKE DAM: The Environmental Advisory Council of Newtown Township has reported the following to the township Board of Supervisors about discussions related to the dam on Earle's Lake at Greene Countrie Village in Newtown Square:

"Earles Dam: Several township residents approached the EAC for help in resolving the damaged dam situation on the north end of the township. The EAC provided an open space alternative. The next step in the process is for the Green Country Village to present to the Planning Committee the options that they are considering. --- Bruce Killen Sept. 21, 2016"

Bruce Killen is chairman of the township Environmental Advisory Council. The link to the report that includes his comments about the dam is:

https://newtowntownship.civicweb.net/document/17110/Environmental%20Advisory%20Council%20-%20Monthly%20Report%20Se.pdf?handle=C96A0074ACCA46268C528B51A95A0A98

Reminder: Bruce Killen and Cindy Mehallow, co-chair of the township Environmental Advisory Council, coordinated and participated in meetings about Earle's Lake and the proposal by the Greene Countrie Village condo council to sell the lake and some surrounding acreage to a private partnership that wants to develop the site. The meetings were held with the Willistown Conservation Trust and the Natural Land Trust.

Tjsnwas my great- grandfather's property and I am sorry if it will be drained. What is the present status? Thank you, Melanie Earle Lynagh

STATUS AS OF TODAY (Sept. 30, 2016): At this time, the Greene Countrie Village condo council remains committed to selling Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage (between 5 and 9 acres). The condo council says it wants to sell the lake and property because of the expense and liability associated with owning them. The condo council was notified in September 2011 by the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection that the earthen dam for the lake is "unsafe" and must be either repaired to meet current environmental regulations; or the dam must be removed, the lake drained and the property remediated to meet current regulations. In 2012, the GCV condo owners voted in support of draining the lake; as of September 2016, the lake has not been drained. ... The condo council estimates it will cost at least $680,000 to do what the state has required. The condo council also has decided that the GCV condo owners (who collectively own the lake and the property) would not want to pay for that work through a loan or through higher condo fees. So, the council plans to ask the condo owners to vote on the question: Should the GCV condo council continue its pursuit to sell the lake and the surrounding acreage?

This proposal was shared with GCV condo owners at a meeting in July 2016. At that meeting, the GCV legal counsel said that ballots would be sent to the condo owners within 30 days of that meeting. Since that time, the GCV condo council has told GCV condo owners that it asked for some revisions to a proposed agreement with the private partnership that wants to buy the lake and the surrounding acreage. No information has been shared with the GCV condo owners since they were told about the proposed revisions.

The partnership that wants to buy the lake and the surrounding acreage is formed under the name TCFS LLC. Two of the partners attended the July 2016 informational meeting for GCV condo owners that was held at the GCV clubhouse on Earle's Lane in Newtown Square, Pa. The two partners in attendance -- attorney Mark Spergel and real estate portfolio manager Brian Finnegan -- said the partnership was formed specifically to purchase Earle's Lake and the surrounding acreage. The partnership also includes Michael Trio, a former township manager of Newtown Township; and a fourth partner, who was not named. TCFS approached the GCV condo council in the summer of 2015 with its proposal to buy the lake and the surrounding acreage. The property is zoned for residential development. At the July 2016 meeting, TCFS partners Spergel and Finnegan said TCFS wants to build townhouses on the location -- numbering at least 27 and as many as 54. It would drain Earle's Lake, re-channel the creek and remediate the property -- ending up with a total of "2.7 buildable acres."

The GCV condo council has said it has not had the lake and surrounding acreage appraised to determine its current value as a lake and woods, or to determine its potential value as a site to be developed. The GCV condo council also has not advertised the property as being for sale, and it has not listed the property as being for sale with a real-estate agent or with the Multiple Listing Service maintained by the Realtors association. The GCV condo council is responding solely to the proposal made by TCFS LLC.

Newtown Township planners and supervisors have been made aware of the proposal to sell Earle's Lake and surrounding acreage and that the intended buyer (TCFS) would develop the site. The township Environmental Advisory Council held two meetings on the matter -- one with the Willistown Land Trust and one with the Natural Lands Trust -- to determine if there is interest in pursuing a path that would preserve the property, perhaps as a community park or another type of protected public area. The Environmental Advisory Council has notified the township Board of Supervisors of those discussions. It also has reminded the GCV condo council that any formal discussion about the future of Earle's Lake and the surrounding acreage will have to start with the township planning office.

TCFS Partners LLC is the full name of the limited-liability company formed to buy Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage from the Greene Countrie Village condominium community in Newtown Square, Pa. TCFS Partners LLC was registered with the state of Pennsylvania on June 28, 2016.

Company Name: TCFS PARTNERS, LLC
File Number: 6424423
Filing State: Pennsylvania (PA)
Filing Status: Active
Filing Date: June 28, 2016
Company Age: 4 Months
Principal Address: 8 Whitewoods Lane, Malvern, PA 19355

TCFS has four partners. They include:

--Brian P. Finnegan, of Whitewoods Capital Advisers in Malvern, Pa.

--Jonathan H. Spergel, a managing partner with law firm Manko, Gold, Thatcher and Fox LLP in Bala Cynwyd, Pa.

--Michael T. Trio, the city manager of Coatesville, Pa., and a former township manager (2011-2014) of Newtown Township, Pa.

Greene Countrie Village is on Earle's Lane in Newtown Square, Newtown Township, Pa.,

Dear all, It has been a while I posted!

My arm is functioning again, and so use the holiday today to post a summary of what I have gathered over visit to the DEP and permit application for the breaching of the dam (received from USACOE).
It is a bit long (so go to the underlined points of interest to you, and check the end)

Dam at Earles lake, Status determined by DEP documents, letters to GCV from the DEP, and emails from the DEP to Radnor township’s Chief of Public Work (Mr. Norcini)

Earles lake dam is classified by the DEP as a High Hazard dam as should it fail the impact on people and properties downstream would be major to people and properties. The dam was classified as unsafe in 2011 in part due to poor maintenance of the dam by GCV over the years and the settlement at the pipe level that became a sinkhole after Irene. DEP required GCV to either rehabilitate the dam or breach it in 2011. GCV evaluated both options: it applied for a rehabilitation permit in 2008, and starting in 2009, had Leggette, Brashears and Graham (GCV’s contracted Engineering firm) study the breaching option. GCV Homeowners voted to breach the dam in 2012.
DEP asked that GCV as an immediate measure draws down the lake, as GCV is getting permits and studies done (to breach the dam). The DEP Chief of Dam Safety indicated in an email to Radnor township’s head of Public Work in December 2011, that the permit to drawdown “allows the owner to lower or drain the lake level of the impoundment, it doesn’t require the owner to do such.”

The draw down permit was given by the PA Fish and Boat Commission in 2011 and valid through 2013. Another application was filled in May 2014 by GCV to continue with the drawing down, as the permits and work on the breaching hadn’t started yet. In actuality what happened? Since September 2011, GCV has kept opened the lower pipe in the primary spillway bringing down the lake over 5 years to below the emergency spillway by a few inches on average. The drawing down is minor. The safe level of the drawing down is of real concern to property owners downstream.

The dam maintenance is kept on monitoring mode year after year. L, B and G (GCV’s Engineering firm that fills a report yearly) indicates in the report’s checklist that the breaching is a year away. Therefore, the repairs needed (as per the DEP) since 2010 have not been done:
“Primary spillway should be repaired to deter any further movement of soil from the embankment.” Primary spillway is a set of three pipes that goes through the earthen dam and spills directly into the stream.
“The left abutment of the emergency spillway must be repaired.” The Emergency or also called secondary spillway is a large concrete way that goes from the lake to the creek. Whenever the pipes are not enough to evacuate the water (during heavy storms), the water spills into the spillway and the creek.
“Trashrack needs replacement.” Trashrack is a catch on the lake side, that prevents debris from entering the pipes, and therefore clogging it
“Rip-Rap should be regraded.” Rip-Rap is a pile of large stones that break the water spilling out of the pipes and emergency spillway.
Also has been noted for repairs by the DEP: the trees that have fallen into the lake and broke off the fence, the vegetation on the walls of the dam upstream/intake at the pipe level.
As of October 2016, none of these maintenance have been done, they are indicated as “Monitored” on the Leggette, Brashears, and Graham reports and subsequent Dam’s reports by the DEP.

Breaching of the DAM
Environmental Review for the breaching project (a required step in securing permits)
Search results reviewed in 5/27/2014 indicates that there is a potential Environmental impact on the Special Concern Specie of Aplectrum hyemale (commonly called Puttyroot). PA Department of Conservation and Natural Resources asked for Further Review. The same document with the same research results was done on 5/21/2015. At this time, I don’t know if further review was completed and what were the PA DCNR or PA DEP conclusions. Since then, there are new species that have been added to the Pennsylvania Natural Diversity Inventory (PNDI), in particular the long ear bat that could be of interest to us.

Plans for breaching:
Application and plans were submitted to the DEP and USACOE (US Army Corps of Engineers) in June 2014. Not enough details or information were included. The DEP and USACOE had seven questions that were never answered. Since GCV didn’t respond within the 60 days given, the plans are administratively withdrawn. From speaking with the DEP, the process can be restarted once GCV complete the information needed.
Information and details requested are:
1. Plan of the entire dam, impoundment, and adjacent properties/road. This should include a delineation of the total project area including all impact to waterways, wetlands, and uplands such as e&s, dam removal, site work, access, and staging. It should also include a delineation of any wetlands (point-point) and or waterways to the ordinary high water mark (above and below the dam).
2. A wetland presence/absence report for the site (including all work, access, staging area)..if there are wetlands adjacent to the area…
3. How will the sediments behind the dam be handled? What is the depth of the sediments? Where will they be disposed (temporarily and permanently)? If to be temporarily stock-piled, the plans must identify where and how they will be stabilized/stored. If only the proposed creek channel will be excavated, how will the remaining sediment react to the restored water flow (e.g. will it cause excessive erosion)?
4. Please submit a breakdown of impacts (square footages/acreages) to aquatic resources (within wetlands and below the ordinary high water mark) for each activity: total area of impact for all activities, areas of permanent regulated impacts (i.e. discharge od dredges and or dill materials including re-deposition of dredges materials for re-grading and stream channel preparation, rip-rap placement) and temporary regulated impacts (sandbag cofferdam placement, temporary fill-based access, etc.)..then there is an indication of permits type based on the size of the aquatic resource impact area (less or more than 1 acre)
5. Will any utility be impacted? If so, then how? …Any changes, or disturbances to utilities requiring regulated activities will need to be depicted on plans and cross sections with impact addressed. (Note: there is a Sewer meter station in the area of the breaching)
6. Supply cross sections of the proposed work including upstream dam impoundment (existing/proposed), dam removal site (existing/proposed), and downstream waterway (existing/proposed) with the ordinary high water mark, associated elevations, and wetland lines if applicable..
7. Did you receive response from the PHMC regarding historic resources? (Note see below, doesn’t know if any response was provided.)

Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission:
Dam breaching project requires to file with the PA Historical and Museum Commission indicating if the site has historical preservation value. L,B and G indicate that there are no buildings on the site (of historical value, there is of course our house). PHMC’s response wasn’t in the DEP office and as of September 1st, 2015 not known.

Breaching the Dam project: Application for permit to the DEP and USACOE

Summary of the proposed breaching of the dam includes dewatering the lake, breaching the dam (excavation of about 890 cu yds), and excavation of a proposed channel (about 450 cu yds) across the former lake bottom. The emergency spillway, along with the spillway walls, will be broken up and buried in place. The impoundment area that will be eliminated by the breaching of the dam is approximately five acres. …The area of disturbance, as defined by the area below the surface water elevation resulting from a 2-year storm event, is estimated to be about 29,460 sq. ft. (0.676 acre). The channel, which is designed to convey the flow resulting from a 2 year storm event (87 cfs), is proposed to have a bottom width of 15 ft, a depth of 1 ft, and sides sloped at 2 horizontal to 1 vertical. The breach opening through the dam is designed to safely pass the flow from a 100 year storm event (697 cfs) with a depth of flow of about 2.9 ft.

Filed application of May 9th, 2014: GCV filed and paid for a Dam Safety Application including specific water obstruction and encroachment fees. The application included the buttressing of the downstream slope of the dam with soil to improve the stability (of the dam), slurry impoundment, refuse pile and stockpile that would impact over 1000 linear feet of the stream and permanently disturb the 3-foot-wide stream and 50 feet of floodway on either side of the stream. (Our house and land would be in the inundation limit of the project.)
The permit application also includes the construction of an access road and utility line through wetland and stream. The utility line is 30 inch diameter steel pipe carrying petroleum products. It will be open trenched traversing through the entire floodway and stream with a permanent right of way totaling 50 feet x 68 feet and an additional construction right of way 25 feet x 68 feet.
(this is a very important new element in this project).

Meeting of September 2, 2015. The DEP (Mr Fair and Kraueter) met with Mr. Spergel from Manko, Gold, Katcher, and Fox (legal counsel for TCFS, LP), Mr. Martin from Marathon Engineers (Engineering firm retained by TCFS, LP), and Mr. Caplan of USACOE. Location: Greene Countrie Village but to be noted Greene Countrie Village management or counsel were not in attendance.
NOTE: TCFS, LP approached GCV homeowners’ association in the Summer of 2015 to buy the lake to build townhouses (min. of 27) where the lake is currently. TCFS, LP signed a non-binding agreement of sale in December 2015, and as of October 2016 is waiting for the approval (80% of the homeowners need to agree to the sale by vote)to move ahead with the development project.

The Memorandum for Record indicates the following: PHMC hadn’t given response from the inquiry regarding historical site. Mr. Caplan from USACOE restated the seven questions of 2014 (see above), in particular the sediment management, the question of methodology (whether a temporary cofferdam to de-water the lake is planned). Also was mentioned that various permits would be needed if the work stays or not under 1 acre of regulated impacts and directly associated disturbances to aquatic resources. Also in discussion was the stream channel location (TCFS would like to move it further over to the hillside). Mr. Caplan indicated that engineering the channel is possible.
Was brought up also the sanitary sewer line (It would be impacted)

but not brought up:
- The permit needed for property development,
- The utility pipe with its permanent right of way.
- Flood impact during and after breaching,
- Environmental impact: the need for further review as asked by PA Department of Conservation and Natural Resources,
- Impact during work and risk of inundation to the property at 660 Earles lane,
- Maintenance to the dam, until all permits are secured,
- Draw down permit or draw down level,
- Timeline, deadline, penalties if dam maintenance is not performed in timely manner.

Thanks so much for your post, Nadine. All of this is news to the residents of Greene Countrie Village. No one -- repeat: no one -- has heard of any proposal to put a utility pipeline through the Earle's Lake site. It certainly was not mentioned at the meeting in July 2016 by the partners of TCFS Partners LLC or by members of the Greene Countrie Village condo council. ... The only new "information" provided to the GCV condo owners -- the people who own the lake -- is contained in the following statement sent to the condo owners from GCV management on Oct. 4, 2016: "The Board of Directors are still in negotiations regarding the Lake. There is no other update available at this time."

NOTE TO N-SQUARE: The principal in Whitewoods Capital Advisors LLC in Malvern, Pa., according to the firm's website, is Darren J. Caterino. His professional affiliations include at least 1 of the 4 partners in TCFS Partners LLC, the company that is trying to buy Earle's Lake; and they include at least 1 company whose managing partner is a partner in TCFS Partners LLC. They are:

--Brian P. Finnegan, a partner in TCFS Partners LLC, who is listed as co-principal of the Whitewoods Capital Advisors.

--Manko, Gold, Katcher and Fox LLP, a law firm based in Bala Cynwyd, Pa., which is listed under "alliances" on Whitewoods Capital Advisors' website. Jonathan H. Spergel, a partner in TCFS Partners LLC, is a managing partner at Manko, Gold.

The other identified partner in TCFS Partners LLC is Michael T. Trio, who has been city manager of Coatesville, Pa., since August 2015. Prior to that, Trio was township manager (2011 to 2014) of Newtown Township, Pa., where Greene Countrie Village is located.

Another connection among these professionals is through O'Neill Properties Group of King of Prussia, Pa. All four -- Trio, Caterino, Finnegan and Spergel -- have worked for O'Neill Properties Group. That company specializes in buying and developing brownfields.

Permit consideration for TCFS
To keep in mind, should TCFS, LP receives an approval from GCV homeowners, they will take a few weeks to do more specific project assessments. At the end of that period, they will go ahead or decide that it isn't feasible and back off from the purchase agreement, or consider that it is cost effective to do this project. As you can see from the partners' background, TCFS has an expertise in uncommon development (brownfield, risk management, township management). One of the assessments they will need to consider is obtaining a Standard individual permit from the US Army Corps of Engineers. This will include a public notice issued within 15 days of receipt of a complete application, to solicit comments from the public, adjacent property owners, interested groups and individuals, local agencies, state agencies, and Federal agencies. The Corps considers all comments and the applicant’s responses to those comments, including any proposed modifications of the project. The Corps may discuss project modifications with state and Federal agencies and other interested parties. A public hearing is held, if necessary. The Corps conducts a public interest review evaluation and, if necessary, a section 404(b)(1) guidelines evaluation.
Furthermore, the following general criteria are considered in evaluating all applications:
1. The relevant extent of public and private need for the proposed work;
2. Where unresolved conflicts of resource use exist, the practicability of using reasonable alternative locations and methods to accomplish the objective of the proposed structure or work; and
3. The extent and permanence of the beneficial and/or detrimental effects the proposed structure or work is likely to have on public and private uses to which the area is suited.

These criteria are very important, as TCFS will have to demonstrate that the development of townhouses in this location (in a former lake bed) cannot be achieved reasonably in an alternative location.
We can envision that homeowners against the proposed development at GCV and community residents in both Radnor and Newtown township could object to the proposed development, comment on it during the public notice/hearing period. Local associations and agencies could also make the case for flood impact, storm water management issues and green space interest.
It is not clear to me that TCFS despite its expertise, will be willing to take on a development projects that faces community's resistance. It is important that anyone against the development be ready to act once the public notice/hearing period is started as the 15 to 30 day window is critical.
Thank you for commenting on this on this forum for everyone's benefit.

Following is an update, I posted on Change.org (thank you to all of you who voted):
Homeowners at Greene Countrie VIllage haven't received the ballot as of October 4th. Voting to approve the sale to TCFS, LP is therefore an unknown.
The dam safety is also left unattended by both the responsible party: Greene Countrie Village, and the responsible agency: the DEP. The breaching application of June 2014 was administratively withdrawn by the US Army Corps of Engineers and the DEP as Greene Countrie Village failed to provide additional information on some key issues (including the sediments removal, and the water level management during breaching). One of the partners at TCFS, LP is a former manager at Newtown Township (Delaware county), the same township that is today letting scores of land being develop for commercial use. Can you see the scenario? I do, and the picture is not pretty!

REMINDER ABOUT GCV MEETING ON OCT. 27, 2016: The condo board of directors at Greene Countrie Village has scheduled a special meeting for GCV owners and residents on Thursday, Oct. 27, 2016. The meeting will start at 7 p.m. in the GCV clubhouse on Earle's Lane. ... Council members will talk about the special assessment of $100,000 they recently approved. The special assessment will be levied from Nov. 1 through April 1 and will be due with the condo owners' monthly condo association fees. Condo owners' monthly payments will increase by at least $46 (for the smallest units) and as much as $130 (for the largest units).

A letter from the GCV board of directors to the GCV condo owners says the $100,000 special assessment is needed to pay to "maintain GCV's aging physical plant." The board states the money will be spent in three areas:

1) "to cover repairs previously completed ($67,000)";
2) "to address some critical work upcoming ($38,000);
3) "to contribute to our Reserves which cash-flow problems have prevented us from doing so most of 2016 ($61,000)."

The board notes that the amounts listed total more than $100,000, and states that "The remaining funds will come from Current Reserves."

A question-and-answer session will follow the board's presentation at Thursday's meeting.

It would make sense for the board of directors to talk about the new special assessment in the context of the board's previously announced plan to sell Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage.

UPDATE ON THE PROPOSED SALE OF EARLE'S LAKE (Oct. 27, 2016): The Greene Countrie Village board of directors (the condo council) is continuing discussions to sell Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage at GCV in Newtown Township to TCFS Partners LLC. Condo council members told condo owners tonight that the only "deal breaker" for the council at this time is that TCFS Partners has been unwilling to have the property in question professionally surveyed. (You would be right to ask why this potential buyer does not want to specify exactly what it says it wants to buy.)

Condo council members also re-stated at tonight's meeting that they will NOT have the property appraised to determine its potential value on the open market, and they will NOT advertise the property as being for sale. (You would be right to ask why the condo council does not want to find out what the property is worth and why the council does not want to talk to any and all potential buyers.)

REMINDER: As stated in the original Declaration of Condominium for Greene Countrie Village (recorded in 1976 by then-owner Fountain Square of Greene Countrie): All "common elements" in Greene Countrie Village belong jointly to the individual GCV condo owners. The lake and the surrounding property are among those common elements.

The Declaration of Condominium also states that while the GCV condo owners may choose by way of a vote to sell some part or parts of the GCV property, that property must be marketed and sold "at a commercially reasonable price."

Common sense -- and a court of law -- will tell you that establishing a "commercially reasonable price" for a piece of property requires, at a minimum, that the GCV condo council 1) obtain an independent appraisal of the property in question, and 2) advertise the property as being for sale so potential buyers can step forward and make their offers.

Clearly, the Greene Countrie Village condo council has NOT established a "commercially reasonable price." What the condo council is doing is trying to sell the lake and surrounding property for $250,000 in cash up front and the promise of a transactional fee that would be generated by the sale of each of the townhouses that TCFS Partners has said it might -- repeat: might -- build on the property. Keep in mind: If TCFS Partners (or anyone else) buys the lake and acreage, it can do whatever is legally allowed in the state of Pennsylvania. That includes sticking a "For Sale" sign in the ground -- which is in Newtown and Radnor townships -- and selling it to the highest bidder.

Why in the world would the Greene Countrie Village condo council choose NOT to put their own "For Sale" sign in the ground to test the market? Why does the GCV condo council NOT want to find the highest bidder for the property? ...

As I am not from GCV, I didn't follow the story of the special assessment indicated above by Watchdog. I was under the impression that the loan taken five years back (?) where for the purpose of paying for repairs.
The homeowners at GCV should receive shortly the ballot in order to vote on the proposed sell to TCFS of the lake for development. Was this discussed further at tonight's meeting? What was TCFS' response to the proposed adjustments to the AOS, which was discussed at the special meeting in August?

I am a unit owner at Greene Countrie Village and just found this site. I'm glad a group has formed to save Earles Lake. I would like to connect with the unit owners that feel as I do. Thank you for putting your efforts through research and creating this page to keep the community informed.

I attended the meeting on Thursday night. There was no mention of ballots being sent nor TCFS' response to th changes in the AOS. The lake sale was mentioned as an afterthought at the end when the group was starting to leave. Has Rannor Conservancy been made aware of this situation?

NOTE TO NADINE H. (and to all): Yes, the loan you mentioned in your post was procured, in part, to repair the dam. What follows is taken directly from Greene Countrie Village's Notes to Financial Statements for the Year Ended Dec. 31, 2012:

"Note 7: LOAN PAYABLE: During 2012, the Association procured a loan for $2,000,000 with NCB Bank. The loan must be repaid over a ten-year period, has an interest rate of 4.9%, and has a monthly payment amount of $21,115. The loan will assist the Association in providing funds to correct many of the infrastructure issues in the community, including necessary repairs in connection with the dam project."

I walk down to the lake every morning with my dog and have been noticing a beautiful white egret there almost every day. One day both the Blue Heron AND the egret were there standing quietly. I hate the thought of this being paved over for housing :( Picture of blue heron attached. Not a great photo from a phone but I see him/her sometimes at the other ponds in the area.

I posted a comment here yesterday with a photo but I see it never showed up. I was saying how I walk my dog down to the lake every morning during the week around dawn and sometimes in the evening and I have been seeing a white bird almost every day I believe is an egret. One day the blue heron that is is sometimes there, and a rare treat, was standing there with the egret. I try to take photos with my phone but they are not great. Yesterday evening the blue heron was there again. I would hate to see this paved over with condos!

UPDATE ON PROPOSED SALE TO TCFS PARTNERS LLC: The following information about the proposal to sell Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage to TCFS Partners LLC was presented Thursday evening (Oct. 27, 2016) by the Greene Countrie Village condo council to the GCV condo owners. The text below is from the PowerPoint slides that were shown at the meeting.

BEGIN TEXT:
"At the update meeting [held July 20, 2016 at GCV] a series of concerns were raised; since the meeting, GCV has been negotiating with TCFS to resolve these issues:

"---Development Restrictions: Site Lines & Visual Impact.

"---Financial Capability: Assurance that TCFS has/can obtain necessary resources.

"---Assignment Rights: If property is transferred by TCFS, GCV is protected.

"---Existing Loan: GCV Lender has to approve transaction.

"---Purchase Price & Timing of Payment (Clarification).

"One Key Item Needs Resolution: AOS [Agreement Of Sale] calls for a Survey to be included. Survey delineates exactly what is being sold. TCFS has been reluctant to perform the Survey before the AOS is signed; probably for financial reasons.

"GCV is adamant that a Survey must be done before the AOS can be signed. Our position has been made clear to TCFS. If TCFS is unwilling to provide a Survey, this will probably be a ‘deal-breaker.’ "

END TEXT

During the meeting, the GCV condo council treasurer said the council is still in discussions about the bullet points noted above. The treasurer said progress is being made, but he did not elaborate. The treasurer also emphasized the final bullet point: that if TCFS does NOT provide a survey that details the property it wants to buy from GCV, then that "probably will be a deal-breaker."

When the Earle's Lake portion of the council's presentation ended, a condo owner asked when the council plans to have the property in question appraised by an independent appraiser and when the council plans to advertise the property as being for sale to determine its value on the open market. The council treasurer and the council president, both speaking for the council, said 1) the council is NOT going to have the property appraised and 2) the council is NOT going to advertise the property as being for sale.

Council members were asked to explain why they refuse to have the property appraised and refuse to advertise the property to find the highest bidder. The council members refused to explain why they have taken this position.

ALSO:

--The information about the proposed sale of Earle's Lake and some surrounding property to TCFS Partners was provided at the end of the meeting, which was primarily about a 6-month special assessment that condo owners will start paying on Nov. 1, 2016. This latest special assessment will generate $100,000. The condo council says the $100,000 will be used to 1) pay vendors who have already completed work and provided services to GCV; 2) pay back some funds to the GVC reserve fund, which has been drawn down to pay for operating costs; and 3) help pay for some work that needs to be done.

--The latest special assessment does not relate directly to Earle's Lake or the dam. Expenses related to the lake and dam are paid out of a separate fund for the dam that was set up several years ago and was funded by a special assessment levied at that time.

--There was no mention at the meeting of when a voting ballot will be sent to GCV condo owners regarding whether the condo council should continue its efforts to sell Earle's Lake and the surrounding acreage to TCFS Partners. The condo council needs the support of 80 percent of the condo owners to proceed with its plan to sell the property in question. ... The initial deadline for ballots to be sent to condo owners was Aug. 19, 2016 -- 30 days after the July 20, 2016, meeting at which the condo council first told condo owners of its plan to sell the lake and some acreage to TCFS Partners. ... Reminder: One or more of the 4 people who are partners in TCFS Partners LLC have been talking to GCV council members since the summer of 2015 about buying the lake and some surrounding acreage. TCFS Partners has told the council that, if TCFS buys the property, it plans to build townhouses on the location -- at least 27 townhouses and as many as 54 townhouses with units priced between $300,000 and $500,000. That information was later shared with the condo owners at the July 20, 2016, meeting.

--

NOTE TO TreeHugger: I do not know if the Radnor Conservancy has been contacted directly about this proposal to sell Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage to a developer. I do know that the director of the Radnor Township Department of Public Works (Stephen F. Norcini) was notified about the proposed sale in late July or early August of 2016. Mr. Norcini was notified by Cindy Mehallow, the co-chair of the Newtown Township Environmental Advisory Council. Mr. Norcini said he and several colleagues in Radnor Township government would be interested in talking with Ms. Mehallow and her colleague Bruce Killen, who is chairman of the Newtown Township Environmental Advisory Council.

I am guessing that there was direct follow-up on the matter. Radnor Township has a direct legal interest in the property in question: Part of the Earle's Lake dam is in Radnor Township. Likewise, the access road to dam is in Radnor Township. In addition, Radnor Township is well known for its proactive positions on matters related to the environment, conservation and stewardship.

Watchdog: Good to know about Radnor's proactiveness regarding conservation. It seems the word about the sale of the Lake is getting out. Perhaps green options can be considered.

Sooooooo ...... – the Board is selling an UNDETERMINED amount of land for an UNDISCLOSED sale price WITHOUT the consent of the owners ???

Well said, #SaveEarlesLake. Thanks for cutting to the chase. ...

It is absolutely stunning that the GCV condo council is pursuing the sale in this manner. The GCV Declaration of Condominium, filed in 1976, requires that any sale of a "common element" -- the assets that are owned collectively by the condo owners -- must be sold at "a commercially reasonable price." ... At this time, the GCV condo council has no idea what a "commercially reasonable price" is for the lake and the surrounding property that TCFS Partners is trying to buy. ... It is beyond belief that the council refuses to have the property appraised and refuses to advertise the property as being for sale to the highest bidder. The path the condo council is taking is reckless and negligent.

Worth noting, too, is that First Service Residential, the management company hired at a premium price by the GCV condo council to run all GCV community operations, knows in detail what the condo council is trying to do. First Service Residential is fully on the record in this regard, saying that it has no leverage in the matter regarding the sale and the lake and that GCV's legal counsel, Marcus & Hoffman of Media, Pa., is steering the council as it pursues an agreement to sell the lake and the acreage to TCFS Partners LLC.

NOTE TO ALL GCV CONDO OWNERS: The opportunity to vote on what the condo council wants to do is forthcoming, although no date has been set since the initial Aug. 19, 2016, deadline passed. At some point, a ballot will be delivered to all condo owners asking them to vote "yes" or "no" about whether the GCV condo council should continue with its plan to sell Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage. Read the ballot question closely so you fully understand what it means to vote "yes" or "no." The GCV regulations require the support of 80 percent of the ownership to proceed with a sale of any "common element" -- including the lake and the land around it.

Reminder: Votes are weighted differently, based on the size of the individual condo units. In round numbers, the smallest condos have votes that are worth one-fourth of one percent; the largest units has votes that are worth three-quarters of one percent. All of the votes assigned to the GCV condo units combined total 100 percent.

So many things are going wrong here!
Radnor conservancy, Radnor township, Elaine Schaffer (Radnor ward commissioner for this area) EAC Radnor have all been informed....Newtown township and EAC newtown township as well: so nobody can say they don't know: this has been going on for FIVE years.
GCV has NOT spent any money repairing the Dam at Earles lake since 2010. See the posting I made last month based on documented reports filed by GCV to the DEP and US Army Corps of Engineers.
GCV homeowners if you think that the loan that YOU are paying for is covering the dam maintenance you have been misinformed. We are currently being left unprotected: the dam is in terrible shape. I have reached out to everyone to protect us and our community. I hate to play Casandra here, but I really hope I don't have to say one day "I told you so". Reminder the lake dam is GCV liability.
GCV management is showing in this last meeting how deep it is in this. I wanted to believe so far that the people involved were mostly trying to limit the damage (ie cost) to the homeowners and therefore preserve owners from the cost of draining the lake. Now I realize that the situation is much more disturbing. Not getting an evaluation of the lake property or advertising the property to the general public is indeed WRONG. Lying to the homeowners as to the necessity of selling now to TCFS as the only option is WRONG.
GCV has been approached at several occasions since 2011, and in particular since the July 2016 meeting for which Watchdog posted, to seek alternative to selling the land for development. The option of preserving the land for green space has been proposed and advocated by local Environmental advisory groups of Radnor and Newtown, local property owners, and conservancy groups.
I am concerned just like Watchdog, that TCFS can easily make money from this (sweet) deal with GCV: by putting for sale sign as soon as the 80% of GCV approve the sale of the lake and that a binding Agreement of Sale is signed.
I don't know if everyone at GCV is on board with the special assessment for repairs for which the $2 Million loan of 2012 was procured (and that the homeowners are paying for). I don't know how detailed is the budget break down provided to the homeowners. What I know is that when it comes to asking for more money, everyone is entitled to a very specific budget with each item clearly explained (contractors bills, bank statements, bids submitted and chosen). In addition, there is a need for full disclosure by Green Countrie Village board and management that include any transaction fees that would go to the managers negotiating this deal.
I thought I was the only one kept in the dark since the decision in 2011 of draining the lake, now I realize that the owners at GCV have been even worse misinformed and manipulated. This is totally WRONG.

For members who are more recent readers here is what I posted last month relative to the dam maintenance:
The dam maintenance is kept on monitoring mode year after year. L, B and G (GCV’s Engineering firm that fills a report yearly) indicates in the report’s checklist that the breaching is a year away. Therefore, the repairs needed (as per the DEP) since 2010 have not been done:
“Primary spillway should be repaired to deter any further movement of soil from the embankment.” Primary spillway is a set of three pipes that goes through the earthen dam and spills directly into the stream.
“The left abutment of the emergency spillway must be repaired.” The Emergency or also called secondary spillway is a large concrete way that goes from the lake to the creek. Whenever the pipes are not enough to evacuate the water (during heavy storms), the water spills into the spillway and the creek.
“Trashrack needs replacement.” Trashrack is a catch on the lake side, that prevents debris from entering the pipes, and therefore clogging it
“Rip-Rap should be regraded.” Rip-Rap is a pile of large stones that break the water spilling out of the pipes and emergency spillway.
Also has been noted for repairs by the DEP: the trees that have fallen into the lake and broke off the fence, the vegetation on the walls of the dam upstream/intake at the pipe level.
As of October 2016, none of these maintenance have been done, they are indicated as “Monitored” on the Leggette, Brashears, and Graham reports and subsequent Dam’s reports by the DEP.

Why on earth would GCV council take this route of seeming stupidy and negligence? How does this benefit GCV? Is it pure laziness, desperation? Is it a covert partnership with TCFS that a few will benefit? It doesn't make any sence.

To all: I know the last time (a few months ago) I spoke to Trish, she mentioned that the current assessment was to cover other operating costs of GCV as well as pay for the monthly engineering reports of the lake. She did confirm that none of the current fees being collected were going towards remediating the issues with the lake. I also wanted to mention, and I have it mentioned it a few other times above, that the lawyer I am speaking with informed me that the GCV community potentially has a claim against the board. He would need to review the document that Watchdog keeps quoting, which unfortunately, to date I have not received a copy of to forward to him. He informed me that if there were to be a claim against the board, that would in turn hold up the sale of the lake, as the board would not be able to move forward until the litigation was resolved. If anyone wants any more information, you can contact me directly at AshleyLWilson7@gmail.com.

Nadine Hensley <>

Watchdog <<"Note 7: LOAN PAYABLE: During 2012, the Association procured a loan for $2,000,000 with NCB Bank. The loan must be repaid over a ten-year period, has an interest rate of 4.9%, and has a monthly payment amount of $21,115. The loan will assist the Association in providing funds to correct many of the infrastructure issues in the community, including necessary repairs in connection with the dam project.">>

My question is, What happened to the $2,000,000 earmarked to repair the dam!!

Quote from Nadine--GCV has NOT spent any money repairing the Dam at Earles lake since 2010. See the posting I made last month based on documented reports filed by GCV to the DEP and US Army Corps of Engineers.
Watchdog--"Note 7: LOAN PAYABLE: During 2012, the Association procured a loan for $2,000,000 with NCB Bank. The loan must be repaid over a ten-year period, has an interest rate of 4.9%, and has a monthly payment amount of $21,115. The loan will assist the Association in providing funds to correct many of the infrastructure issues in the community, including necessary repairs in connection with the dam project."

So look above for my question!

From what I understand, the loan was primarily for much needed infrastructure and ground repairs at GCV. From what Watchdog wrote I see that it was planned some amount going toward the dam project. Since I am not a resident of GCV, I don't know what the residents were told as to the amount earmarked for the dam. What I know is that no repairs were done on the dam since 2010, and that the dam is in worse shape today due to lack of maintenance and repairs.
Watchdog: Was the loan of 2012 linked to a plan for repairs itemized and prized? Since the Special assessment of $100,000 has been approved (or has it not?), do owners learned of how these expenses compare with the original plan (and loan) of 2012? I imagine that everyone at GCV votes on the yearly budget and that the books are audited by an outside firm. Thank you for clarifying this for Jane and anyone at GCV who moved recently in the condo.

NOTE TO NADINE H. (and all): The 10-year $2,000,000 loan taken on by Greene Countrie Village in 2012 was procured after an engineering firm completed a site inspection and a study of financial reserves for GCV in 2011. The engineering company, Kipcon Inc. of New Brunswick, N.J., issued its findings in January 2011. The report includes an overview of the condition of the property; an analysis of the physical plant; recommendations about replacements and upgrades; the financial analysis of GCV's reserve fund; and a breakdown of projected repair-and-replacement costs over a 30-year time period. The report includes a chart that shows how much money should be contributed monthly to GCV's reserve fund under funding 4 strategies (ranging from the bare minimum required to a fully funded plan).

Today, nearly 6 years after the Kipcon report was issued in 2011, it appears -- emphasis on "appears" -- that Greene Countrie Village has used the report and its recommendations as broad guidance, at most, in terms of prioritizing repairs. The Kiocon report recommended that the report itself be updated in 2 years to restate update costs and so on. That update was not done. (Note: At the GCV special meeting held Oct. 27, 2016, the GCV council treasurer said that the Kipcon study will be updated in 2017.

During the Oct. 27, 2016, meeting with GCV condo owners, the condo council shared the following information during its presentation about why a new, 6-month special assessment has been levied on condo owners:

BEGIN TEXT:

Why Didn’t “Loan” Solve Problems? [Note: "Loan" refers to the 10-year $2,000,000 loan taken out in 2012.]

• Loan proceeds were used on ‘External’ problems:
– Roadways -- Sidewalks -- Fences -- Drainage
– Handrails -- Parking Lots -- Lighting -- Steps

• Not enough was available to deal with:
– Remaining external problems, e.g., Stucco & Painting – Building-related issues

• Buildings are old and showing age:
– Window Boxes -- Roofs -- Chimneys -- Balconies

END TEXT

Worth noting is that the dam was not listed in the presentation as being among the examples of how the loan was used.

Worth repeating is this fiscal note from GCV's 2012 audit: "The loan will assist the Association in providing funds to correct many of the infrastructure issues in the community, including necessary repairs in connection with the dam project."

Also worth repeating -- as the GCV treasurer did at the meeting on Oct. 27, 2016 -- is that GCV maintains a separate "dam reserve" fund that was established several years ago and was supported by a special assessment levied at the time.

The GCV Council has basically been operating in secrecy.

There is NO transparency.

There is NO notice of Board meetings AND meetings are NOT open to the owners

Minutes of the Board Meetings are NOT POSTED to the community website or anywhere else.
.
A Mandatory two week notice is required to speak to the Board at a Board meeting AND the topic must be included. (you just need to know when that meeting is)

The recent meeting restricted any open discussion. Raised hands would be recognized once with one question allowed.

THIS HAS TO CHANGE.

OWNERS NEED TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON!

Many thanks to the concerned, responsible people who are keeping this issue alive. Save Earle's Lake from irresponsible development!

Is it true that TCFS has applied for the rights to the gas line below the lake?

Will they financially benefit from that and for how long?

Why wouldn't GCV as current owners apply for that right?

Leggette, Brashear, and Graham (the engineering firm retained by GCV) submitted in May 2014, within Chapter 105 calculation worksheet (this is linked to the breaching of the dam application) something called "Joint Permit Application for Individual Water Obstruction Encroachment Permit". In the paragraph it says that there will be an open trenched utility line traversing through the entire floodway and stream with a permanent right of way 25 x 350 ft. The utility line is 30 inch in diameter steel pipe carrying petroleum products. Now I am not sure if a pipe is currently there (it is not showing on any of the map for application for the breaching). For that reason, it would be very helpful, if you know anyone in the community who have some engineering expertise in this field, or who knows someone that could look at this document and explain the utility pipeline. I have sent an email to Radnor township Public work asking for their feedback a month ago, but I haven't heard from them yet.

The regulatory form noted in the previous post -- called the Joint Permit Application for Individual Water Obstruction Encroachment Permit -- is posted online by the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection at this link:

http://www.elibrary.dep.state.pa.us/dsweb/Get/Document-114308/3150-PM-BWEW0036_JPA_Instructions.pdf

I have no knowledge about the actual application filed by GCV's engineering firm (Leggette, Brashear, and Graham). But I will note that the application form specifies, among other things, that it is the appropriate form to file if an applicant is seeking to restore a stream channel or realign a stream channel. (Reminder: Removing the Earle's Lake dam and restoring the stream channel at Earle's Lake are the steps that the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection would like GCV to take. Acceptable to the Pa. DEP, but less desirable to the agency, is that GCV would repair the dam so that it complies with all state and federal regulations and thus qualifies for a permit. )

I would guess -- guess -- that applying for a 30-inch utility pipeline to carry petroleum products would reflect a need (perhaps a regulatory requirement) to accommodate the delivery of natural gas to and through the property, regardless of whether GCV would continue to own the property. (Again, that's just a guess.)

Also worth noting is that:

---The GCV application was submitted in May 2014, as noted in Nadine's post. That would be about 1 year before TCFS Partners LLC approached GCV about buying Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage. TCFS Partners approached members of the GCV condo council in "the summer of 2015," according to both TCFS Partners and the GCV condo council.

---During the July 20, 2016, meeting for GCV condo owners about the proposed sale of Earle's Lake and surrounding acreage to TCFS Partners LLC, the two TCFS representatives who attended the meeting said that their proposed development of the site would require them to "rechannel the stream." They said, in broad terms, that the stream would be rechanneled toward "the back of the property."

Historic reminder: The stream in question was dammed more than 100 years ago by the Earle family to establish a mill pond to be used on the family's thousand-acre estate and homestead. At that time, no regulatory permit was required to install such a dam (here or elsewhere). That manmade mill pond later would become known as Earle's Lake.

Nov. 11, 2016: UPDATE ON PROPOSED SALE OF EARLE'S LAKE TO DEVELOPER: The board of directors of the Greene Countrie Village condo community notified condo owners today (Nov. 11, 2016) that TCFS Partners LLC has NOT met the terms of a proposed Agreement of Sale regarding Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage. In an email to the GCV condo owners, who own the lake and the property in question, the GCV community manager, speaking for the board, said the following:

"The Board of Directors has received a response to the latest changes to the Agreement of Sale from TCFS (the potential developers of the Lake area), after many months of due diligence on behalf of the Association Members by the Board the Agreement of Sale terms have not been met. The Board has and will continue to pursue other possibilities to resolve the approved breach of the Dam."

The notice from the GCV board of directors does NOT say whether the board will continue to try to work with TCFS Partners, the 4-person partnership formed to try to buy Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage that is zoned for residential use.

TCFS Partners, which has a Malvern, Pa., address, had proposed to the GCV board of directors that it wanted to build between 27 and 54 townhouses on the property. At a meeting about the project on July 20, 2016, the GCV board of directors unanimously recommended the sale of the lake and property to TCFS Partners. During that meeting, condo owners expressed concern that neither the board of directors nor TCFS Partners could answer basic questions about the proposed sale -- including what exactly was going to be sold; how much was to be paid to GCV for the lake and land; why the property had not been appraised to determine its value; and why GCV refused to advertise the property as being for sale to seek out the highest and best bidder.

The Greene Countrie Village board of directors has scheduled a meeting for Thursday, Nov. 17, 2016. (Note: That meeting notice has not been distributed to GCV condo owners. For confirmation, call the GCV site manager at 610-353-2506 or the assistant manager at 610-353-2505.) The meeting likely will be about the proposed budget for fiscal 2017. GCV regulations require that the annual budget be presented to the condo owners for their consideration at a general meeting held within the first 2 weeks of December. At the moment, the meeting scheduled for Nov. 17 appears to be open to board members only. GCV condo owners who are concerned about protecting their community and their investment in it should be watching this closely.

Thank you @watchdog for this update. I wrote to Trish this morning the following message:
Dear Trish,

I recently became aware of TCFS not meeting the terms of the proposed Agreement of Sale. I would like to again extend my assistance and experience in fund raising to raise the necessary funds to not only repair the lake, but also to create an endowment to cover the forecasted annual maintenance costs to keep the lake. I do have extensive experience in fundraising and capital campaign drives. I would kindly ask if you could extend this message to the rest of the board, for consideration to an alternative of a sale. I truly believe both townships are willing to work with us to preserve the lake, and/or greenspace, and in turn this would alleviate the current and future financial burden and liability that your community faces.

****

I hope this time, my offer to assist in the situation will be considered by the board, and we work together as a community to keep this lake and/or preserve the greenspace.

Thank you as always @watchdog for keeping us posted!!!
Also, just to let everyone know, add foxes to our lake's community, as one ran through my yard last week!!! Love these beautiful animals!

I hope we are able to work out a situation where we are able to keep the lake and raise the necessary funds needed for repairs without bankrupting GCV. Thank you Ashley and Watchdog and others who have contributed to this effort through this blog. Hopefully, GCV board with be open to your suggestion. Great idea!

UPDATE Dec. 19, 2016: The Greene Countrie Village board of directors has approved the budget for 2017 for the GCV condo community. It includes a 1 (one) percent increase in monthly fees for condo owners. The 2017 budget includes no mention of Earle's Lake or the dam, both of which are owned by the GCV condo community.

The quoted material below about Earle's Lake was included in the December 2016 issue of the Village Voice e-newsletter to GCV condo owners. In the quoted material, "lake" refers to Earle's Lake; also "at the meeting" refers to a meeting held July 20, 2016, for the GCV condo owners. [Note: It was at that meeting that the condo owners were informed by the GCV condo council that it was unanimously recommending to the condo owners the sale of the lake and several surrounding acres of property to a development partnership known as TCFS Partners LLC of Malvern, Pa.]

"Lake Update: The lake is no longer being sold to the developers you met at the meeting to discuss the sale of the lake and the developers' plans. The council is discussing other alternatives and taking the concerns the residents have expressed under consideration."

Happy Holidays Everyone! I had some time today to do some research and found an interesting set of minutes...It appears Michael Trio (one of the four TCFS members met in 2012 with GCV to learn of the draining of the lake, and informed Newtown of the potential for new parkland). I know this might not be relevant anymore as TCFS is not going forward with the deal, however it is interesting that he obtained this information while working in his former position, and was going to use it for his personal profit.
http://www.newtowntownship.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/October-9-2012.pdf

Happy Holidays Ashley. Interesting indeed. Thank you Ashley, Watchdog, Nadine, etc... all for your efforts on this all year.

Thanks for sharing the info about Michael Trio, who is now the city manager for Coatesville, Pa. If you look at that city's website and go to the item about the office of city manager, it includes the fact that the city manager "is bound to adhere to the International City/County Management Association (“ICMA”) Code of Ethics." Tenet 12 of that code of ethics says this:

"Tenet 12: Public office is a public trust. A member shall not leverage his or her position for personal gain or benefit."

If anyone is interested in reading that, go online to: www.coatesville.org/administration/office-of-the-city-manager .

Just found out about this event for anyone who is interested
Upcoming event with George H. Earle V!
When: Jan 18, 2017, 7:00pm
Where: Dunwoody Auditorium, 3500 West Chester Pike, Newtown Square, PA
*Admission is free
More details are available on https://www.facebook.com/SaveEarlesLake/

Guess who is at the lake today?!?! A bald eagle!!! Picture posted on Facebook.com/SaveEarlesLake

@Ashley Wilson that is so cool! I will check out the facebook page.

I'll be brief......a lake for more housing? NO!

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April 10, 2017:

The Spring 2017 issue of The Village Voice, a newsletter for the Greene Countrie Village Homeowners Association, was distributed April 8, 2017. A note in it from the GCV management office says: "Dam: There are no new developments concerning the dam."

Also in the newsletter are some edited minutes of GCV council meetings held Jan. 25, 2017, and Feb. 21, 2017. The dam and Earles Lake are mentioned in both.

--From the January meeting minutes: "[T]he Board discussed the various solutions, including establishing a Greenspace Committee in securing grant monies, for solving the Earles Lake/Dam problem. The Board discussed and voted 5 to 1 in favor of the possible following steps: 1) Seeking advice from Leggitt Braeshears engineering firm, 2) Seeking a land appraisal and survey, 3) researching alternative engineering methods for reinforcing dams."

--From the February meeting minutes: "The Board discussed [GCV manager] Trish's update on the Earles Lake/Dam regarding how further sources of grant monies for a greenspace could be obtained and if engineers could recommend as to how to take the dam off the unsafe list."

Reminder: The GCV condo council was notified in September 2011 by the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection that the earthen dam at Earles Lake is "unsafe." The DEP told GCV that one of two things must happen: 1) Repair or replace the dam so it meets current environmental regulations; or 2) remove the dam, drain the lake, and remediate the property so it meets current regulations. In 2012, the GCV condo owners voted in support of draining the lake. As of April 2017, the lake has not been drained.

Thank you as always @Watchdog! As a reminder, please feel free to share with the community that I am willing to help in any way possible to keep the lake. I am not sure if everyone follows the Facebook page, but the Bald Eagles come to the lake daily and now we also have a beautiful hawk that comes almost every morning too! I will reach out to the board again to express interest in assisting with the process (if needed). Thank you again to everyone for the information sharing and support!

I have been watching the Eagles! It is amazing. I wonder if they are going to build a nest there. Soon the blue Heron and the Egret will return as well. This lake must be preserved.

You're welcome, Ashley. ... Worth noting is that Greene Countrie Village owners will be voting soon to elect or re-elect people to three seats on the condo board. Four challengers and two incumbents are competing in the election. A "Meet the Candidates" meeting is set for 7 p.m. Thursday, May 4, at the clubhouse. Voting is under way at this time, with proxy ballots due at the office by 4:30 p.m. Monday, May 8. The election meeting -- at which owners may vote in person -- is set for 7 p.m. Tuesday, May 9.

Among the challengers running in the election is a landscape architect named Frederic Albert, who has recently purchased a unit in GCV. Mr. Albert is the architect who worked with William K. Stewart and his partners in the 1970s to convert the former Fountain Square of Greene Countrie luxury apartments to Greene Countrie Village condominiums. Among other things, Mr. Albert and his firm created the documents for the condo conversion, which took place in June 1976. Mr. Albert's bio also includes experience in the rehabilitation of ponds and lakes. He could be a real asset to the GCV board and to the community at large. ... FYI.

April 22, 2017

In a letter dated April 19, 2017, from the Greene Countrie Village condo council to the GCV unit owners, the council says it is considering a plan "to partially breach the dam and partially drain the lake." Doing that, the council's letter says, would cost "approximately $200,000" and would be done "as an initial step, with the ultimate goal of completely breaching the dam and completely draining the lake at some point in the future." The letter says the GCV council it will keep the unit owners informed about the proposal.

Reminder: The GCV condo council was notified in September 2011 by the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection that the earthen dam at Earles Lake is "unsafe." The DEP told GCV that one of two things must happen: 1) Repair or replace the dam so it meets current environmental regulations; or 2) remove the dam, drain the lake, and remediate the property so it meets current regulations.

@Watchdog thank you as always for keeping us informed. I emailed Trish last week to offer assistance with fundraising to preserve the lake, and still have yet to hear a response back. I also find it astonishing that they would release a letter like this so close to Earth Day! Hopefully, newly elected members (if elected) will be more receptive to the community's (and my) offer to assist in preserving this beautiful lake. Do you happen to know if township approval (from both Radnor and Newtown) would be needed to partially draw down the lake? I know to completely breach the dam and drain the lake they would need approval, and the community is able to weigh in as well at that time, but I was not sure if drawing down the lake would also follow the same procedures.

I do not know what the process would require in terms of notifications, approvals and permissions. I do know that the Greene Countrie Village emergency flooding/evacuation plan is on file, as required, with Newtown and Radnor townships. Perhaps that flooding/evacuation plan spells out a process of notification regarding any proposed changes to the lake and the dam.

I believe that the state would have to be notified of any work, as the term "partial breach" refers to a specific process regarding reducing the height of the dam and, therefore, lowering the amount of water a lake can hold. That is what is happening at Broomall Lake, a manmade lake in Media, Delaware County, Pa. An update about that, from February 2017, is at this link: https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2017/02/21/dep-to-hold-meeting-on-decades-long-effort-to-rebuild-crumbling-delco-dam/

If interested, here is the link to the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection's overview of the process regarding the breaching of a dam: http://www.elibrary.dep.state.pa.us/dsweb/Get/Document-110291/3140-FS-DEP2120.pdf

FYI.

Ashley, has the board or management company of GCV ever replied to ANY of your inquiries and offers to help with preserving the lake?? This letter comes very suspiciously at a time when we are about to hold elections. I guess they are trying to show they are "doing something" which in my eyes all they have done is tried to push through a shady sale of the lake/land or just breach it and drain it. I do not understand why they are ignoring offers to help try to work with conservation agencies or the township or anyone for that matter.

I posted a comment about an hour ago and do not see it showing up. I am now getting a notice that it needs to be approved by the organizer? I don't know if it's because I reported a spam message - maybe it thinks it is my email now spamming. Anyway I had asked if @ashleywilson has ever heard back on ANY of your offers to help work with the GCV council/management with conservation agencies, townships, etc.. My guess is no :( This seems to be very suspicious that we received this notice now suddenly when the elections are happening.
I do not know the answer to your question about needing township approval to partially drain the lake. They do not seem to think so since it appears they are moving forward with this initiative.
I would like to contact a wildlife conservation organization in regards to the Eagles. This has become their habitat. Maybe it could be protected on that level.

@Taxpaper that cares I have emailed Trish (as I do not have direct access to the board) multiple times since last year to offer assistance. I can also confirm that the community has also offered to help as well (including my neighbor, along with approximately 10 other neighboring properties) and no one from the board has been receptive to us helping. I have offered to come in and meet directly with the board, I have offered to write grant proposals on behalf of your community, I have offered to fundraise on GCV's behalf, or in collaboration with the community and I have been told over the phone by Trish she would share the information with the board, but I have never received any communication back from the board. My understanding is the board has been equally non-transparent with the community, and it is giving the impression (to me) that they want to create this divide between their own community, as well as the greater community. Also note, both Radnor and Newtown Township have expressed interest in working together too. The capacity in which they can assist has yet to be determined, but regardless, a member of your board and Trish were on the calls where this offer was extended (note, I was too, along with a couple members from GCV and the neighboring community) and no follow-up from the board occurred to either township regarding this offer! If I were in GCV, I would want to know these things, especially considering the upcoming election. As a side note, I have lived in multiple HOA communities, and you always want people on the board who not only reflect the community's wants, but also work well with the township(s) and the surrounding neighborhood....especially when both are continually extending offers to assist in alleviating a problem within the community.

May 24, 2017: Update on Greene Countrie Village condo council: The GCV election was completed Tuesday, May 23, 2017. Three seats were filled. Current council members Blanche Reiner (current president) and Ann Cotton (member at large) were re-elected to two-year terms. Frederic G. Albert was elected to fill a vacant seat on the council. He also was elected to serve a two-year term.

The election of Mr. Albert is important as it will bring a unique perspective to the GCV board at a pivotal moment.

In the 1970s, Mr. Albert and his firm, Cassway / Albert Ltd. of Philadelphia, worked with property owner William Stewart to convert the Fountain Square of Greene Countrie apartment community to the Greene Countrie Village condominium community. Among other tasks, Mr. Albert and his firm wrote the documents that accomplished the condo conversion.

Mr. Albert, an accomplished landscape architect, also has completed projects involving the rehabilitation of lakes and ponds.

Read more about him online at: www.fredalbertdesign.com/about-us.html.

Sharing the following news item from the Daily Local News in West Chester, Pa., about the decision to breach a dam and install a public park in nearby East Goshen Township. The story was published online June 26, 2017.

The link to the story is:

http://www.dailylocal.com/general-news/20170626/historic-hersheys-mill-dam-to-be-breached-park-to-be-created

THE TEXT OF THE STORY FOLLOWS:

HEADLINE: Historic Hershey’s Mill Dam to be breached; park to be created

EAST GOSHEN >> Township supervisors have voted unanimously to breach the historic Hershey’s Mill Dam, thus creating a smaller pond and 6-acre park.

The new township park will be located on township property, at the former site of a six-acre dammed pond.

No water currently flows over the dam, and the pond has been drained.

The park will feature stepping stone stream crossings, a series of small waterfalls, an overlook, fishing area and a four-spot parking area, with Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)-assessable trails connecting to an existing trail network that will be fully accessible to all residents.

The project will also include a riparian buffer along the pond’s edge and low meadow plantings, including sedge and milkweed.

Phase I of the project will include dam removal, creation of stream step pools, site grading to create an island and embankment and construction of the pond that will measure about one-seventh of an acre, or about the size of a tennis court.

The parking lot will be built, trails will be constructed of mulch, meadows established and shrub plantings and forest restoration will be part of Phase II.

Construction is expected to proceed in two phases, but everything might be completed in a single phase.

Consultant Peter Simone, of Simone Collins Landscaping and Architecture, said that the planned park, to be located across Greenhill Road from the main entrance gate at Hershey’s Mill, will “look more natural,” with meadow plantings attracting pollinators and birds to the site.

The park improvements are expected to cost about $240,000, with an additional cost into the hundreds of thousands of dollars to breach the brown stone dam.

The township seeks state and federal grants.

Simone said that the waterfalls will be pretty in a storm.

In the past, Greenhill Road has been temporarily closed due to flooding.

“When we get a storm event we’ll determine how that flow might increase so we get the maximum dramatic effect in the waterfall,” Simone said.

The township was required to either replace the dam or build to new state standards as required by the Department of Environmental Protection in 2006.

Supervisors also recently decided to not save the full dam on a larger 19-acre pond in Milltown on Reservoir Road. That structure will become a low hazard dam.

Costs for upkeep for both projects will be cheaper, with “insurance issues” eliminated, Supervisor Marty Shane said.

“What we have planned is going to be a great opportunity for the township to have two nice parks,” Shane said. “I believe that in both cases what we’re doing is the right thing for both the long term and short term.”

Simone said state regulations call for improving water quality. Every five to seven years the silt would need to be removed from the pond, Simone said.

“One of the biggest pollutants is sediment,” he said. “We’re trying to capture it before it gets to the waterfall.”

Wayne Hall led a citizen’s committee that studied the issue. He said the committee surveyed residents to find out what they wanted.

Hall said the new park will become an “attractive” area for children and families to walk through and will become a “quiet place.”

Resident Neil DeRiemer was opposed to the breach, but regardless he said he didn’t lose the fight, because the park will become a nice spot to visit. DeRiemer was concerned about the price tag and said his plan to improve the dam would have cut the cost in half.

Resident Erich Meyer said he’s been attending township meetings for seven years and the dam has been a regular topic of discussion.

“It’s a good outcome for all the residents and they’ve done a lot of good design work,” Meyer said.

Tentative Phase I construction is scheduled for spring/summer 2018. Completion of the project is projected for the summer/fall of 2019.

Adding this update to the previous post about plans for Milltown Dam and Hershey's Mill Dam, both of which are nearby in Chester County. The properties are publicly owned, unlike privately owned Earle's Lake.

The following is from The Philadelphia Inquirer on July 7, 2017:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/for-some-chesco-residents-loss-of-reservoir-a-dam-shame-20170706.html

All: The link below provides information about House Bill 431, the "Private Dam Financial Insurance Program and Fund," a piece of legislation that is being considered during the 2017 Pennsylvania legislative session. If passed, H.B. 431 would provide financial assistance to communities that own lakes and are subject to the regulatory oversight of the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection. That relates directly to Greene Countrie Village and Earle's Lake.

The link goes to the Community Associations Institute / Pennsylvania and Delaware Valley chapter website.

http://www.cai-padelval.org/legislative/pennsylvania

Greene Countrie Village condo owners also will be interested in the reference to House Bill 595. If passed by the state House and Senate, H.B. 595 would "assign the investigation and mediation of certain complaints regarding planned communities, cooperatives, and condominiums under Title 68 (Real Property), to the Office of Attorney General’s Bureau of Consumer Protection." ... FYI.

Wow this is great information. Let's hope these bills pass. Thanks for sharing!

AUG. 14, 2017: Followers of this blog about privately owned Earle's Lake in Newtown Square, Pa., will recall that Newtown Township's proposed Cluster Development ordinance was in development in the summer of 2016 while the township was in the process of updating its Comprehensive Land Use Plan. The proposed Cluster Development -- which would allow denser, multi-unit residential development in exchange for increased open space -- is now in its final form and ready to be advertised to the township's taxpayers.

Tonight (Aug. 14, 2017) the Newtown Township Board of Supervisors will consider approving advertising the Cluster Ordinance, a legal requirement to notify the public that the board is preparing to vote on the proposal. The board meeting will start ay 7 p.m. at the township building at 209 Bishop Hollow Road, Newtown Square.

The meeting agenda, including a link to the proposed ordinance, is posted online at:

https://newtowntownship.civicweb.net/Portal/MeetingInformation.aspx?Id=197 .

At the same meeting, Bruce Killen, chair of the township's Environmental Advisory Committee, will make a presentation about "Township Trails and Walkways." On the meeting agenda referenced above, Mr. Killen states: "We have an outstanding proposal with DCNR [the Pa. Department of Conservation and Natural Resources] for the funding of a townshipwide trail (and sidewalk) plan. Our proposal was submitted in April 2017. Award announcements will be made by yearend. If we secure the grant, we will engage a consultant to help us develop a plan. If we do not receive a
grant, the EAC will put together a smaller scale plan that will focus on selectedtrails and walkways." ...

Readers of this blog about Earle's Lake will recall that Mr. Killen and EAC vice-chair Cindy Mehallow, organized two meetings in August 2016 with two conservancies to gauge interest in seeking alternatives to the development of Earle's Lake and some surrounding acreage. Meetings were held with the Willistown Conservation Trust and the Natural Lands Trust.

Reminder: Newtown Township's updated Comprehensive Land Use Plan, addopted in August 2016, lists four major themes. The first theme is: "Preservation of the Township’s remaining open spaces and natural resources."

To read the full plan, go to:

http://www.newtowntownship.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Comprehensive-Plan-_Adopted_.pdf .

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I may have missed something in the thread about developments related to Earle's Lake, so I apologize in advance if the following notes are redundant:

1---A meeting was held April 10, 2017, regarding Earle's Lake and the state of Pennsylvania's 6-year-old order to either repair/replace the dam so it meets environmental regulations; or to remove the dam, drain the lake, re-channel the stream and mitigate the land. Since the state Department of Environmental Protection issued its order about Earle's Lake in September 2011, no work has been done to repair/replace the dam, or to remove the dam and drain the lake.

Attending the April 10 meeting were: two or three condo council members of the Greene Countrie Village condo association, whose members are the majority owners the lake; GCV's on-site manager (employed by First Service Residential based in Toronto, Ontario, and Dania Beach Fla.); GCV's hired legal counsel (Marcus & Hoffman of Media, Pa.); and GCV's hired hydrogeology engineering firm (Leggette, Brashears & Graham Inc. based in Shelton, Conn.).

According to the meeting notes shared by the condo board with GCV condo owners, the meeting attendees "concluded that a plan of action would be drawn up once the GCV legal representatives sent a letter/received a response from the DEP so a realistic solution could be finalized." At a subsequent meeting of the full GCV condo council, "the board voted unanimously in favor of full disclosure of this plan," the board reported to the condo owners.

No mention was made of an earlier proposal to "partially breach" the dam at Earle's Lake at an estimated cost of $200,000. The engineering firm, Leggette, Brashears, was supposed to have approached the state DEP with that proposal to see if it would be an acceptable step toward meeting the DEP's order.

2---A representative of the Greene Countrie Village condo council met on May 3, 2017, with the owner of a house whose property borders Earle's Lake and reaches into the lake. The topic, as told to the GCV condo owners, was "to discuss possible solutions to the dam problem." The most recent note regarding the meeting says that the owner of the house is putting together a fund-raising business plan. No other details were provided.

3---The Greene Countrie Village audit for fiscal 2016 was shared with GCV condo owners in June 2017. Release of the audit was delayed so it could be tweaked to reflect a $50,000 settlement in a liability case.

Note 12 in the audit refers to Earle's Lake and the situation with the dam. It says:

"A portion of the Association’s Common Element property is known as Earles Lake and Dam. The Council of the Association has knowledge that Earles Lake and Dam is in violation of certain applicable governmental requirements. In addition, the Council has knowledge of certain hazardous conditions associated with Earles Lake and Dam. The Council has been and continues to actively pursue alternatives to address the foregoing issues. These alternatives include, but are not necessarily limited to, selling Earles Lake and Dam or draining the lake and breaching the dam located on Earles Lake and Dam. With regard to the first alternative described above, the Association will not sell Earles Lake and Dam without first obtaining any required approvals from the membership pursuant to the Association’s Governing Documents, as well as, the applicable provisions of the Pennsylvania Uniform Condominium Act (the “Condominium Act”), 68 Pa. C.S.A. 3101 et seq., and the Pennsylvania Unit Property Act, 68 Pa. Code 700.101-700.805 (which preceded the Condominium Act). The Council has been and continues to be in communication with relevant governmental authorities with respect to the Association’s efforts to address the foregoing issues associated with Earles Lake and Dam."

I am considering purchasing a condo in Earles Lake condo development. I have skimmed this thread. Can someone sum this up? Will the lake stay? Will it go? Are there financial repercussions to surrounding homeowners? Thank you.

So far, there have been no financial repercussions to the owners of Greene Countrie Village. It is GCV that owns the lake. Earle's Lake condo development, I believe, does not have the responsibility for maintenance of the lake. So far, no decision has been made regarding the future of Earle's lake.

Greetings:

As of today (Sept. 1, 2017), it is undecided whether Earle's Lake will stay or go. To your question about the Earle's Lake condo community, it MAY share a 30 percent liability for costs related to Earle's Lake, which is owned primarily by the Greene Countrie Village condo owners.

Here are they key notes about the lake and the dam:

---The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection issued a letter to the Greene Countrie Village condo community in September 2011 saying that the dam at Earle's Lake is "unsafe" and that Greene Countrie Village must either 1) remove the dam, drain the lake and restore the stream channel; or 2) repair/rebuild the 100-plus-year-old earthen dam so that it meets current state and federal environmental regulations. The state DEP has the authority to force Greene Countrie Village to take action at any time.

---The Greene Countrie Village condo owners (who own the lake and surrounding property) voted in 2012 to breach the dam and drain the lake. Since that time, some very minor draining has taken place by way of an opened outlet pipe, but the dam has not been breached and the rain keeps the lake at virtually the same level. The engineering firm hired by Greene Countrie Village monitors the condition of the dam at least monthly.

---A homeowner who, in 2016, purchased one of two private homes whose properties touch the lake met recently with a Greene Countrie Village condo council member to propose a private fundraising plan whose mission would be to rebuild/replace the dam in order to keep Earle's Lake intact. That homeowner's property extends into and under the lake. As of today (Sept. 1, 2017), the condo owners have not been told what the status of that fundraising plan is.

---A majority of the Greene Countrie Village condo council wants to eliminate the liability and cost of owning the lake and dam. And the GCV community does not have money on hand or budgeted to pursue either of the state's options: According to the GCV council, breaching the dam and draining the lake would cost a least $650,000; and rebuilding/replacing the dam would cost about $1 million and perhaps as much as $1.5 million. The GCV council has told residents that special assessments will have to be levied on all condo owners to pay for either option.

---Regarding "financial repercussions" for GCV condo owners: The condo owners are on the hook for most of the costs associated with Earle's Lake, as they are the primary owners of the property as members of the GCV condo association. Two smaller and adjacent condo communities -- Water's Edge and Earle's Lake -- have a 30 percent liability, according to a Greene Countrie Village condo council presentation. (Note: Those two condo communities pay GCV for road clearing in the winter, as both communities are served by private GCV-owned roads.)

Also:

---While the Greene Countrie Village operating budget has a line item dedicated to the dam and lake, it is not funded. The revenue generated by a special assessment for the dam/lake fund has been spent on inspection costs and related engineering costs.

---Greene Countrie Village borrowed $2 million in 2012 to complete infrastructure projects, including repairs to the dam. No money from that loan was spent on the dam. The 10-year loan is being paid back by a special assessment levied on the condo owners. The loan cost is about $21,115 a month. The loan will be paid off in 2022.

Hope this helps.

The previous note indicates this forum has been CLOSED. ... Can it be reopened?

This is an ongoing issue. Please reopen so that discussion may be continued.

Thanks for the detailed information Watchdog. One question: does anyone know what the fundraising plans are? Are there any plans?

Thank you for that summary. It is a beautiful development and area. The condo fees are high but the town homes and landscaping are well cared for to an outside observer. Your info on the lake is extremely helpful. Have a good Labor Day Weekend.

You are welcome, Dayle. ... This is a beautiful area. Lots of good neighbors, too.

Note to TreeHugger: An email sent directly to the homeowner who initiated the fundraising conversation with Greene Countrie Village might provide some information. Her email is listed in this thread in her post dated July 28 2016. According to the post, it is: AshleyLWilson7@gmail.com). FYI.

Good Morning Everyone. As I might be receiving a few emails soon:), I just wanted to post here to provide the same update to everyone. It is correct that I met with the GCV Board. They were/are extremely welcoming to my ideas. Of course it is more complicated than just presenting an idea and moving forward, so it currently under review with the appropriate people. I hope in the immediate future the information will be endorsed and we can start to move together as one community. Until then, I don't have any other information to disclose as nothing is final. I want to say one final comment, I am very grateful for the board's willingness to meet with me, and the fact that they are considering all options. I hope we are able to continue to work together and execute a path forward that everyone favors. Have a great weekend!

Ashley, Glad to hear the board met with you and was receptive to your ideas. Hopefully there will be a successful outcome for the maintaining the lake. Enjoy the holiday weekend!

Thanks for the update about your discussion with the Greene Countrie Village condo board, Ashley. It is very encouraging to know that board members have responded positively to your interest in being part of the discussion about Earle's Lake and the challenges related to the dam.

Just sharing this update about Earle's Lake and its dam at Greene Countrie Village condominium community in Newtown Square, Pa. It is the text of an email sent today (Oct. 23, 2017) by GCV's on-site management (First Service Residential) to the GCV condo owners.

BEGIN TEXT OF EMAIL:
The Board of Directors at GCV has been working on a solution regarding the Lake/Dam. Within the past few weeks, the Board has met with the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP). The DEP has given us a hard deadline of January 31, 2018 to present a plan of action regarding the disposition of the lake.

During the course of the meeting with the DEP, options were discussed:

1. As many of you are aware, we have Community approval to fully breach the Dam and turn the space into a passive walking area with the natural stream that already exists. The DEP is highly favorable to this option. In addition, there is a potential for funding for removal of the Dam from different Government agencies.

2. The second option available to the Community is to do a partial breach of the Dam which would leave a small portion of the Lake along with the stream. There is no government funding for a partial breach and the cost would be borne by the Community. We are currently working to obtain a new estimate for the partial breach to help provide some direction to our choice and are also working on an Emergency Action Plan (EAP) that must be updated as soon as possible.

3. The Board is also in conversation with Ashley Wilson, one of our neighbors whose home sits at the end of the Lake. Ashley is willing to start fundraising to either save the Lake in its entirety or partially.
END OF EMAIL TEXT

Background: The Greene Countrie Village condo council was notified in September 2011 by the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (the DEP) that the earthen dam for the lake is "unsafe" and must be either repaired to meet current environmental regulations; or the dam must be removed, the lake drained and the property remediated to meet current regulations. In 2012, the GCV condo owners voted in support of breaching the dam and draining the lake.

The following note is on the agenda for the Nov. 13, 2017. meeting of the Newtown Township Board of Commissioners:

15.
REPORTS:

15.1
Report from the Manager - Stephen Nease
 Earle's Lake
 Gaming resolution

The agenda is posted on the township's website at:

https://newtowntownship.civicweb.net/Portal/MeetingInformation.aspx?Id=222

It is possible that "Earle's Lake" is a reference to the traffic study that the township has initiated along Earle's Lane from Goshen Road to the township line just before Earle's Lane intersects with Malin Road. ... Township Manager Stephen Nease and township Police Chief Christopher Lunn met recently with residents of the Greene Countrie Village condo community who have petitioned the township to consider deploying traffic-calming/speed-reducing measures along Earle's Lane.

FYI.

Hello Everyone, I recently received confirmation from GCV that I can assess interest in saving the lake via pledges (not actual monetary donations at this point, it's just a commitment to donate at a future date of time!). Unfortunately, I have until the end of December to raise quite a significant amount of pledges. I welcome anyone who is interested in assisting to help raise pledges and/or to make a pledge. For further information, please email SaveEarlesLake@gmail.com. If the pledges are not able to be obtained, the lake will be drained. So here is our chance to make a difference, and put our money where our mouth is:) Lets do this!!!!

Thanks for the update on your discussions with a member or members of Greene Countrie Village's condo board of directors. It's encouraging to know that you had a chance to be heard on the matters surrounding Earle's Lake.

As of today (Nov. 18, 2017), the GCV condo owners have not heard officially from the GCV condo board that you have been given an opportunity to solicit pledges with hopes of preserving the lake. The board has said it will provide a "fuller discussion" of the lake and dam on Dec. 11, 2017, at the annual owners' meeting, during which the 2018 operating budget will be adopted.

An earlier email from the GCV on-site manager to the GCV condo owners provides some details about the situation as it relates to the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection's requirement that the GCV present a plan of action regarding the lake and dam by Jan. 31, 2018. That email is below.

BEGIN EMAIL
October 23, 2017

RE: Dam/Lake

The Board of Directors at GCV has been working on a solution regarding the Lake/Dam. Within the past few weeks, the Board has met with the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP). The DEP has given us a hard deadline of January 31, 2018 to present a plan of action regarding the disposition of the lake.

During the course of the meeting with the DEP, options were discussed:

1. As many of you are aware, we have Community approval to fully breach the Dam and turn the space into a passive walking area with the natural stream that already exists. The DEP is highly favorable to this option. In addition, there is a potential for funding for removal of the Dam from different Government agencies.

2. The second option available to the Community is to do a partial breach of the Dam which would leave a small portion of the Lake along with the stream. There is no government funding for a partial breach and the cost would be borne by the Community. We are currently working to obtain a new estimate for the partial breach to help provide some direction to our choice and are also working on an Emergency Action Plan (EAP) that must be updated as soon as possible.

3. The Board is also in conversation with Ashley Wilson, one of our neighbors whose home sits at the end of the Lake. Ashley is willing to start fundraising to either save the Lake in its entirety or partially.

When more information becomes available, the Board of Directors will continue to inform the Community.
END EMAIL

Wait so Ashley has like 1 month to raise like a million dollars???? Isn't that a little ridiculous? You can't even organize 1 event in that time.

I strongly support maintaining the lake or, in the alternative, breaching the dam so as to create a permanent natural area. I would contribute to Ashley's gofundme/money-raising option (even if it may take some time to raise the money).
I strongly oppose any efforts by the owners (GCV? others?) to sell the lake property or to create more housing/commercial areas. There's more than enough expensive housing & shopping in Greater Newtown Square/Radnor areas.

UPDATE Jan. 10, 2018: The Greene Countrie Village board of directors has decided to remove the dam on Earle's Lake, drain the lake, and remediate the property, according to an email sent today by the on-site manager to the owners of the individual condos.

The GCV board of directors faces a Jan. 31, 2018, deadline to present a formal plan of action regarding the lake and the dam to the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection.

According to the email, the "process will be arduous and lengthy. Part of the Lake area will become Wetlands, and the natural stream that runs behind the lake will again be used for water flow."

The email also notes that a proposal to repair the dam and retain some or all of the lake "was examined but the interested party was un-able to provide any hard financial information to support" this more expensive alternative.

In addition, the email states that the GCV board interviewed representatives of three engineering firms -- Leggette, Brashears & Graham; Ingram Engineering Services Inc.; and Eric J. Ditchey, P.E., LLC -- and that the Board will sign a contract with Eric Ditchey.

Today's email did not mention how much the project will cost. In August 2016, the GCV board told the condo owners association that breaching the dam and remediating the property would cost about $600,000. At that time, the GCV board said rebuilding or replacing the dam would cost at least $1 million.

WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE LAKE
For those that are concerned about the lake being removed.....take note.

1. Greene Countrie Village is broke. They are deep in debt and their residents are paying huge assessments for improvements that were made to the community several years ago. I can't believe the residents would approve the project to remove the dam, even though the Board has decided to move forward. This will cause their property values to drop and additional financial hardship on the residents.

2. Environmental Impact Studies will have to be done. Green Countrie will have to pay for studies on the downstream effects of removing the dam. Also, studies will have to be done on the wildlife around the lake. It may be that the turtles in the lake are protected species. If so, additional expense will be incurred for the care of and removal of the turtles. All this costs a lot of money that GCV does not have.

3. Regulatory Approval. Radnor Township, Newtown Township and the State of Pennsylvania are the regulatory bodies that will have to review and approve the project. This is a lengthy and complicated process that could take years. Also a very expensive process.

4. Public opinion matters too. During the regulatory process, public hearings will be held where the public can voice their opinions. This could cause the regulatory process to come to a screeching halt especially if the neighbors surrounding the lake take legal action to block the project.

As a resident, I can't afford to pay for this project. Can you?

Nope. What can we do?

Good question, Tree Hugger: What can we do?

Worth noting (perhaps) is this bit of information:

The state of Pennsylvania does have a mechanism in place to pay some or all of the costs related to repairing or removing dams that have been designated as unsafe. It is in the Pennsylvania State Code under DISBURSEMENTS OF MONIES FROM THE DAMS AND ENCROACHMENTS FUND. It says, in part:

§ 105.431. General provisions.
(a) Fines collected under the penal provisions of the act and civil penalties collected under the act shall be paid into the treasury of the Commonwealth in a special fund known as the Dams and Encroachments Fund.

(b) Moneys paid into the Dams and Encroachments Fund may be disbursed at the discretion of the Department for use in the elimination of hazards to life, property and the environment resulting from unsafe dams, water obstructions and encroachments.

The code is detailed online at:
https://www.pacode.com/secure/data/025/chapter105/subchapKtoc.html

The hope, of course, is that the state would spend some of those funds on costs related to the dam at Earle's Lake -- a dam that state regulators have deemed to be a "high hazard."

HI Watchdog
In years past, the State has not had any funding or offered any financial assistance to GCV for removing the dam. In discussions with PDEP, there has never been any mention of State grants or loans for removing the dam.
Has all that changed now? Are monies in the State budget appropriated to pay for the removal of the dam?

The dam being in private hands, does not get any public funding. When GCV voted a few years back to drain/breach, they looked at the possibility of applying for a grant. However, this is more complicated and money is difficult to get. A good group to contact back is the EAC of Newtown township, I remember that the township had set up a grant request through the committee to get money to pay for a dam removal that they owe. They didn't get the money.
I know the PDEP, says that funding is more available for dam removal (vs. maintaining dam with repairs), but in actuality, it is very difficult to obtain money for these kind of project. Even American River, that was promoting years back the need for draining the lake, is not offering to do better than help with the wetland restoration.
I heard back then from the Fish and Wildlife agent that companies that do large excavation projects, have funded work of this kind, to compensate for them destroying river banks for example to build bridges. With the Sunoco pipeline restarting and a $500 million penalty from the state for non-compliance there is something there maybe?
Nadine

I apologize for the delay in posting on this forum, as it has taken a while for me to compose all of my thoughts for this posting. However, I feel it absolutely necessary to communicate my experience over the past several months working with the GCV board. To recap, I moved into my house in June 2016, and within a couple of weeks I had people walking through my yard to assess wildlife relocation (a firm hired by TCFS, who later backed out of the purchase agreement). That same day, I contacted the Property Manager at GCV and started to ask questions, and was informed of the lake’s situation. During that call, and over the course of the next 10 months, I offered to fundraise to save the lake on behalf of GCV, multiple times. Finally, in April 2017 I was allowed to attend a GCV board meeting held May 3rd.

At the meeting I met with the GCV Board and GCV’s Property Manager. I found almost everyone to be pleasant, and willing to listen to my thoughts on the preservation of the lake, which left me with a very positive feeling that we (GCV community, and the greater community) could work together to save the lake. Due to the timing of the meeting, and the timing of re-elections, the resolution of the lake had to be put on hold until after the re-elections. I periodically checked-in with GCV’s Property Manager, and was finally notified June 13 of the following,
“The council at Greene Countrie Village is willing to work with you on developing funding for the lake; however in order to do so we need a firm and detailed business plan which clearly spells out both the overall strategy for raising the necessary funds as well as the specific tactics that will be employed. Any plan should include the anticipated time frame to completion with specific milestones (preferably quantified) as well as funding targets. Because we are under time pressure (from the DEP) and, also, because we have to pursue other options given the previous vote of our Owners to breach the dam, there is only a short window of opportunity to evaluate your plan. Shortly, we will have to make some hard, internal decisions including what specific solution to pursue and how are we going to raise funds to bring about resolution of our problems with the DEP. This time constraint compels us to require your plan be available to us within 30 days of receipt of this communication. If you need any clarification. Please let us. Also, we have committee members willing to assist you to a limited extent”, - President of the Board.

Over the next 30 days, I worked tirelessly on creating a 14 page Business Plan to present to GCV. Note: I had just a had a baby on May 11, which the board was fully aware of, and still executed this Business Plan on time to GCV. The Business Plan outlined how we, together as one community, over the course of five months (with a launch date of August 2017) could raise the funds to repair the dam, and over the course of three additional months (Jan-March 2018) could raise the funds necessary to create an endowment to cover the ongoing maintenance costs of the lake indefinitely. This would alleviate all financial burden to the GCV community moving forward. The plan also outlined the step-by-step process of how the fundraising committees would be formed, how the fundraising would take place, and how it would coincide with the actual reconstruction of the dam. The plan was backed by fundraising statistics both locally and nationwide to support the timelines and the milestones. While I submitted the plan within the 30 day request, I was later asked to present the plan and provide answers to questions at a meeting on July 24th, which I did. The meeting went very well, and at the conclusion of the meeting, the Board communicated to me that they would present this plan to the GCV lawyers for endorsement, and then the plan would receive greenlight.

It is worth noting that my plan hinged on the fact that the lake and surrounding shoreline would be subdivided as a separate parcel, so it could be converted into a non-profit. The ownership of the parcel would still remain in the hands of GCV, but legally by subdividing the parcel and establishing it as a non-profit, it would encourage people to donate to the cause as their donations would be tax-deductible. In exchange for doing this, I proposed putting benches and a walkway around the lake so the greater community (people outside of GCV community) could sit by the lake and/or walk the shorelines. Obviously, in order to do this I would need to work with a lawyer to ensure that it was done correctly. While waiting on GCV’s lawyers to endorse the business plan, I secured a lawyer, pro-bono, who specializes in this!

Despite submitting the plan, and presenting the plan to GCV in July 2017, I did not receive another update from them until October 13, 2017! In that email correspondence, there was absolutely no mention of the lawyer’s endorsement:
“At our recent DEP meeting at which we were told that the Earle's Lake dam is ranked in 'the top 5' of unsafe dams in Pennsylvania, the DEP demanded that we submit an action plan by January 31, 2018 which addresses GCV's comprehensive approach to resolving problems with the dam. If you wish to have GCV consider your alternative approach (repairing the dam) during our decision-making process, we must have firm and indisputable demonstration of your ability to raise the required amount necessary to repair the dam. We would need this tangible proof early in January or we will be forced to proceed with a plan to breach the dam - which has already been approved by a majority of our Owners. We leave it to you to define what constitutes the level of proof GCV will need to consider your approach as a viable alternative which merits consideration.”- President of GCV Board

I followed-up with the board to ask for what proof they were seeking, and during a board meeting, I was informed if I was able to secure ~$500,000 by the end of December 2017. (In other words, I submitted a plan outlining a fundraising effort of ~$860,000 (the amount the board told me was needed to save the lake) with the assistance of approximately 15-20 people, over the course of five months, and instead the board wanted me to raise almost 60% in 40% of the original timeline, with no global awareness, nor endorsement! Further, as they weren’t willing to fully endorse the plan I could only seek pledges instead of donation, and I could not run fundraising events, nor seek grants (all of which are the highest yielding fundraising activities) resulting in a lower participation rate. During a series of email exchanges, I requested if I could be public about the campaign, which I received confirmation on October 23rd, via email from the President of the Board. Over the next several weeks, when reaching out to people, especially social media, I constantly received messages that GCV community had not endorsed the saving of the lake. This obviously created confusion and resulted in several people’s unwillingness to pledge a donation.

Over the course of my outreach, so many questions came up that were unknowns which I promptly followed-up with to identify the answers (they will be posted at the end of this post). Also, due to the confusion of GCV’s endorsement to save the lake, I asked the board if I could present at the GCV’s community meeting. I was told by the Board president No, as there are financials discussed during the meeting that I am not allowed to hear. I am not sure why the Board/President would not have allowed me to attend either the beginning of the meeting, or the end of the meeting only. In the end, this was just further proof that working with me with just a facade to appease me, and any community member, which I believe there to be many, who oppose draining of the lake.

To summarize here is a list of some of the actions that were taken: meetings with Newtown Township, Radnor Township, George Earle V, contacted Episcopal Academy, Villanova University, Bryn Mawr College, Haverford College, Swarthmore College, met with several GCV residents, and met with a few members of Water’s Edge Community. On social media, postings on Next Door and also on Save Earle’s Lake Facebook page.

In the end, due to several limiting circumstances, I did not receive pledges totalling $500,000. Instead, I discovered a lot of information, that I am now going to share with you.
1. The cost of breaching the dam (draining the lake) verses saving the lake is approximately $200,000. (This is from the figures that GCV Board gave to me!)
2. The individual hired to breach the dam is a friend of one of GCV’s Board Members, and works at a Firm that specializes in dams, but the contract is not going through the firm. Instead, he is doing it through his own LLC. IMO GCV community members should insure that he is equipped to handle a project like this, from a resource perspective and a liability (insurance point of view).
3. GCV is responsible to pay for a wildlife reassessment survey to be conducted. If any animals are found to be endangered, the cost of rehoming can be quite expensive.
4. GCV was built prior to stormwater management surveys and water retention basins. Currently, Earle’s lake manages the storm water from multiple properties, including their own. According to Radnor Township, Newtown township will require GCV to perform a stormwater management survey, as well as, install a proper retention basin if the lake is no longer here. If they do not, and water from GCV infiltrates neighboring properties, GCV is liable, and could face legal action against the community.
5. GCV is required by the DEP to perform a sediment run-off survey prior to draining the lake. Sediment run-off is a great concern of the DEP and also Radnor Township. GCV will be responsible for ensuring a proper system is in place, and if one is not properly installed, the DEP, Radnor Township and neighboring properties have the right to pursue legal action against the community.
6. While the DEP stated Earle’s lake/dam is one of the highest risk dam’s in PA, the DEP does not mandate the removal of the dam. The DEP will provide support for whatever GCV decides.
7. The downstream effects are not limited to houses on Earle’s Ln. Any changes to topography, resulting in flooding, and sediment deposit to houses or parks, even downstream on Darby Creek, as a result of the draining and improper replacement structures to Earle’s lake provide liability risk.
8. I also discovered that GCV is responsible for 70% of the cost, but holds all of the decision making power with respect to the lake, and Water’s Edge Community is responsible for 30% of the cost. With the repair cost I was given by the GCV board of $845,000, that is $591,500 for GCV and $253,500 for Water’s Edge. I believe I was informed that GCV has 204 units, totaling $2,899.51 per unit assessed; and I believe Water’s Edge has 54 units, totaling $4,694.44 per unit assessed. That is if the entire cost was funded by the community itself to save the lake (an no fundraising was done at all). I was given a figure of ~$650,000 if the lake was drained. Using the same assumptions that is $2,230.39 per GCV unit, and $3,611.11 per Water’s Edge. *Note the ~$650,000 quote was given prior to Eric’s involvement, so it might be less per unit. In either case, what is worth noting, the wildlife relocation, stormwater management survey/system, sediment run-off survey/system, and potential legal liability will most likely be a lot more than the differential saved by draining the lake.

In closing, I was very willing to help with saving the lake and lifting the financial burden off the GCV and Water’s Edge Communities. I am greatly disappointed at not only the outcome, but the run-around I was given, especially considering this was at a time where the board was fully aware I had a newborn baby. I thought my efforts were worth it as my children would have grown up in a community that appreciated wildlife (the number one reason we moved here), but instead I am left with missed hours with my child to appease a board whose sole purpose was to create an impossible task in order to say to their community that they tried. From how I was raised, and how I will raise my children, that is not the definition of “tried”. I am sorry I have not been more transparent at this point, but the community had made it very clear that they do not like the posting of information on this forum. Since I am no longer working with the board, I am open to questions, and I can make my business plan open to anyone who wants it.

Dear Ashley,
I just want to take a moment to thank you for all your work on trying to save Earles Lake. It's obvious that you have put a lot of time, hard work and effort and a resident of GCV I sincerely appreciate your efforts.
The issues you raise in this letter are deeply unsettling to say the least.

For right now I want you to know that it makes me ill to think of all of the time you spent while having a newborn to be basically duped by this board and management company.

None of this information was ever disclosed to us as owners. The fact that they wouldn't even let you speak at our meeting - I do not understand! Yet they let that so-called investment group come in to one of our meetings and sell us on why they should be able to buy the lake for pennies on the dollar and develop on it.

I will not let this go unaddressed by this board. I would urge anyone on this message board that is an owner in GCV to contact me. I will post here again with an email address if people are interested.

I can also assure you that the people in Waters Edge and Wooded Way are not aware of any of this either. Even though they have an interest in the lake they have not been in any of the correspondence in regard to the lake.

I am so sorry you had to endure this arduous process basically on our behalf. I know that you have an interest in the lake of course since it is your beautiful back yard but your determination and smarts along with Watchdog's are the reason we know all of this information that has been posted here over the past couple of years.

I hope we can connect off of here.

The dam that needs to be breached is the long standing small minded, self serving GCV board!

The community needs a forward thinking Board - one that represents the interests of the community and not the Board members' own agendas.

The legitimacy of the "election" by the homeowners to breach the dam is in question. What are the GCV bylaw requirements for an election to change the commonly held property of homeowners? I would expect notification, discovery, OPEN meetings, ad hoc committees, discussions with joint homeowner association unit owners and impacted neighbors, applications for multiple grants, advice from local government and environmental groups and multiple estimates to repair or breach the dam.

Did homeowners have a legitimate election or an ultimatum?

A letter with two choices was delivered to the homeowners.

Choice 1. Pay a huge assessment to cover the cost of repairing the dam ( the estimate at that time was greater than $600,000. and could go higher )
or
Choice 2. Breach the dam.

This letter was sent shortly after the Board had taken a $2M loan and assessed all owners for 10 years to repay the loan. The loan funds were to improve infrastructure - a portion of the money was to be set aside for the repair of the dam. (By the way...Where is that money?) This assessment had a huge impact on the individual owners fees. I suspect that given the ultimatum, the newly assessed, poorly informed homeowners took option 2.

I believe the homeowners invested in Greene Countrie Village because of the beautiful location that included a lake, a tennis court, a pool and a clubhouse. At present the tennis court has been lost due to damage from work trucks and poor maintenance, the club house has had tarps for two years covering a third of the building because of a damaged staircase, the lake is on the chopping block.....where will this inept Board take Greene Countrie Village next?

What is the next step to preserve the lake?

Many stand with neighbor Ashley !!

I have so many questions: what is the agenda of the council/management? why wouldn't they accept Ashley's proposal? Why are they keeping that clubhouse behind a tarp? (at least it was changed from blue to a white tarp - still, they showed that tarp off with a sense of pride, as proof that we have no money and are proud of it. why do we get assessed for every little thing? pretty soon we'll be assessed for air freshener every time someone in the office @#$%! Where IS the money going?

As for the shady election results, realize that the office manager has an interest in the elections. If enough new members are elected to serve on the board, and feel she's not doing a good job, she can loose her job.

A resident who ran for election proposed that we could get students from DelCo Community College's new horticulture program that could work on the lake as part of their student project. They could spruce up the lake area and it wouldn't cost anyone anything. Why isn't this option being considered?

Finally, thank you Ashley for your hard work in trying to save the lake. I sensed your frustration that in response to your efforts, you just were handed a bag of lies from the dubious GCV board and management. This is an embarrassment. I am starting to feel ashamed to call GCV my home.

What can we do to save GCV and Earle's Lake?

hmmm, wonder why my earlier post was blocked.

Tax payer that cares- thank you for your post. You, and anyone else who would like to speak further, are always welcome to stop by my house.
SaveEarlesLake- GCV Board met with the DEP to confirm their decision to drain the lake. Now the appropriate groundwork must be conducted, and permits need to be obtained. To start, DEP allows for a comment period for permit submissions. Here is a link with some more information: http://www.dep.pa.gov/PublicParticipation/PublicComments/Pages/default.aspx
The client naming convention is: GREENE COUNTRIE VILLAGE HOME OWNERS ASSN (75162)
TreeHugger- try again, maybe it was a fluke.

Thanks Ashley, the post is visible.

Thanks to Ashley Wilson for sharing some of the details regarding her discussions with members of the Greene Countrie Village condo council and its manager. The condo owners at GCV have heard virtually no details from the GCV council or the GCV manager regarding your proposal to identify private funding and grant monies to do something intelligent to preseve some or all of Earle's Lake.

It's worth noting that Ashley's experience with some specific members of the GCV condo council matches what the GCV condo owners have experienced over time with those same condo council members. When the council members have "allowed" GCV condo owners to ask about the council's decisions and actions regarding the lake and the dam (and other matters), the council
members' responses often have been defensive, dismissive and passive-aggressive. In all cases, the opportunity for GCV condo owners to ask questions and provide input has come after the fact.

It is sad to say that most of the GCV condo council members have embraced the mantra of its president, which is this: "We are a poor community. We do not have enough money to pay for our basic operating costs. We do not have a five-year plan or even a two-year plan. We operate month to month. We delay required maintenance. We delay payments to vendors for work they have already done. That's all we can do."

The result? The GCV condo council routinely under-budgets for some services (such as snow removal), approves a small increase to the unit owners' basic monthly fees -- and then charges special monthly assessments to the condo owners when the budget runs out of money and there are still bills to be paid.

The GCV council also does not fund its capital reserve fund adequately, so it does not have money on hand to respond to most emergency repairs. That also results in special assessments being levied on the individual condo owners. (That lack of reserves is also the main reason why GCV condos are not eligible for FHA-backed mortgages. To be eligible for FHA mortgages, the federal agency requires a condo association to prove that it puts at least 10 percent of its annual operating income into a dedicated capital reserve fund.)

To be fair, let's acknowledge (again) that Greene Countrie Village started digging this financial hole many years ago. The previous longtime management group -- following the condo council's wishes -- kept the monthly homeowners fees artificially low by systematically neglecting maintenance, repairs and replacement. (For proof, look no further than the poor performance of drainage, the failing walls and foundations, and the many dead and dying trees throughout the property.)

Those many years of neglect have left Greene Countrie Village with a need for community-wide repairs whose cost exceeds by far the revenue generated by the monthly condo fees (the source of most of the association's revenue). Indeed, when the GCV condo council took out a 10-year $2 million loan in 2012 to pay for capital improvements (to include repairs to the dam at Earle's Lake), the members knew that amount would not be enough to pay for the $3 million worth of repairs they had identified as being needed.

There is no "news" in what I have written in this particular posting. But the context is important to keep in mind and to share with new visitors to this thread. It will take new ideas and new participation to help improve life at Greene Countrie Village. Interested condo owners with productive ideas should consider running for condo council in upcoming elections.

Greene Countrie Village owners and residents with questions or comments may direct those to Patricia DiFabio, the on-site property manager. She reports to the GCV condo council and to her colleagues at First Service Residential, the company currently paid to manage GVC. Call her at 610-353-2506 or through the main office number at 610-353-2505. Send email to her at Patricia.Difabio@fsresidential.com.

@Ashley Wilson. I sent you a private email off of here. Not sure if you received. Check your spam?

Thanks!
GCV owner

@taxpayer that cares, sorry I didn't receive it. A lot of people misspell my email..they forget the "L", between my first and last name, or the 7...so again, it's AshleyLWilson7@gmail.com.

Today, I met with someone who can potentially help save the lake. During that meeting, I showed the person the lake and dam. Also during that meeting, Trish DiFabio (the property manager of Greene Countrie Village) requested her maintenance guy to tell me that I couldn't be there. We moved the less than 10 feet off of GCV property, which I told the maintenance guy. He radioed to Trish and told her that I said that. Obviously this was not satisfactory to Trish, so she called the Radnor Township Police to report me. Two officers showed up and confirmed I was not breaking any laws, and I could proceed as I was. They stated they would go to talk to Trish. This is not how I would treat someone who for the past year tried to help you, and your community.

hum, that's a red flag.

Speaking of needing some new ideas ...

A reminder to condo owners at Greene Countrie Village: You have another opportunity to help improve life in the community by the lake by running for a seat on the GCV Board of Directors. Four of the board's seven seats are up for election this spring and will be decided by a vote of the unit owners. Votes will be counted in May.

Candidate profile forms must be submitted to on-site manager Trish DiFabio by March 30, 2018. Profile forms may be submitted in person at the office, via email (send to patricia.difabio@fsresidential.com) or by fax (fax to 610-353-3352).

The election notice dated March 1, 2018, and mailed to unit owners states the following regarding candidate qualifications: "According to the Declaration of Condominium any individual willing to run for Council must own (name on title) their unit and need to be up to date on all fees attached to your account. (In good standing with monthly assessments.)"

(A side note: The election notice does not refer to a minimum age for candidates. ... The original GCV Code of Regulations, from 1976, set the minimum age for council/board members at 21. That minimum age requirement -- 21 -- was retained when the candidate qualifications in the code were amended in April 1999. ... Perhaps that age requirement was dropped in the recent past. Might be worth a call to the office. ... )

Greene Countrie Village condo owners with productive ideas, energy and enthusiasm are needed on the GCV Board of Directors. And all GCV condo owners should support them by voting in the election.

@Watchdog, great reminder. I hope there are more people on this forum that live in Greene Countrie Village and/or are spreading the word to other owners. Election forms are due in 3/30. Even if you aren't going to run people need to attend and VOTE. Last year a quorum wasn't met and that led to confusion and complication in the voting process.

Thank you Ashley Wilson for continuing your efforts to save the lake. I am sorry for how you were treated. You deserve to be treated with courtesy and respect. especially after all you have done and continue to do.

It is time for some new voices step up as board members to take on the challenge of redirecting the course of GCV. This community has so much offer.

Does anyone know if there are three proposals for repairs to the dam and the amounts? and how much is escrowed for those repairs? and what happens if there are not enough funds to make the repair?

Regarding the questions in the previous post from SaveEarlesLake:

The dam is NOT going to be repaired. The dam will be removed.

Greene Countrie Village condo owners voted in 2012 to remove the dam, drain the lake, and restore the original stream channel. Their decision came as a result of the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection issuing a notice to GCV in September 2011 to do one of two things: rebuild the dam to meet current state and federal regulations; or remove the dam, drain the lake, and restore the original stream channel.

According to GCV's hired engineers, removing the dam and draining the lake will cost much less than rebuilding the dam to meet modern standards.

Since the 2012 vote to remove the dam and drain the lake, no meaningful work has taken place. GCV unit owners have continued to pay the engineers to monitor the dam monthly and correspond with state and federal regulators.

In 2017, the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection told the GCV council and GCV's management firm (First Service Residential) that GCV had to file an official plan of action by Jan. 31, 2018. That official plan -- to remove the dam and drain the lake -- was filed with the state regulators in January 2018.

Virtually no money is held in escrow by GCV to pay for this work. In fact, the little money remaining in GCV's dedicated Dam Reserve Fund was moved into GCV's General Fund as part of the budgeting process for the 2018 budget year. At that time, there was about $17,000 remaining in the Dam Reserve Fund, according to the GCV council treasurer. As of Jan. 1, 2018, there is no entry for the Dam Reserve Fund in the GCV operating budget.

As of today (March 25, 2018), the GCV condo owners have received no information about how GCV will pay for any of the work related to removing the dam and draining the lake. The GCV condo council members have been discussing the matter in private, and they continue to do so. Those discussions would have to include imposing a special monthly assessment on all of the unit owners, how much the assessment would be, and how long the assessment would be in place.

Nearly two years ago, in July 2016, the GCV council told GCV unit owners at a meeting that removing the dam, draining the lake and mitigating the site would cost at least $600,000. At that same meeting, the GCV council told unit owners that rebuilding the dam to meet modern state and federal regulations would cost at least $1 million (one million) and as much as $1.5 million (one-and-a-half million).

March 30, 2018:

A reminder for Greene Countrie Village condo owners: Today (March 30, 2018) is the deadline to submit a candidate profile form if you are interested in running for one of the four seats on the Board of Directors. The election will be held in May.

An email sent today (March 30) by the on-site manager states incorrectly that March 29 was the deadline to submit candidate profiles. The same email also says: "Please get any applications into the management office before the of end business hours today."

The reference in the email to "of end business hours today" differs from what was mailed to GCV unit owners at the beginning of the month. That letter, dated March 1, 2018, states: "... please complete the enclosed candidate profile form and return it March 30th, 2018. In person or by mail to: Trish Difabio, Community Manager, 323 Earles Lane, Newtown Square, PA 19073. Candidate profiles may also be sent electronically to patricia.difabio@fsresidential.com or faxed to 610-353-3352."

Again, today (March 30, 2018) is the deadline for candidate profiles to be submitted -- in person, via regular mail or email, or by fax.

Suggestion: Candidates may want to request an acknowledgement of receipt from the GCV management office.

April 2, 2018:

The link below may be of interest to those who are following news about Earle's Lake and dam at the Greene Countrie Village condo community in Newtown Square, Pa. The headline on the news item is: "These 16 gone in 2017: Pennsylvania leads nation in dam removal." FYI.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/03/these_16_gone_in_2017_pennsylv.html

That's really interesting. Especially the cost of removing dams saying on average $25,000. Looks like many of these were rivers, and instead of draining the body of water removing the dam was actually beneficial to keeping it active and healthy. I'm not sure if the same applies to the Lake but also interesting to me that there was a non-profit involved in many of these projects. I honestly do not believe GCV has any idea what they are doing here and have not taken the time to properly research this. If you are going to spend $650,000 on a project wouldn't you do as much research as possible especially when you do not have ANY MONEY at all to do the work.

Just calling your attention to the story about Earle's Lake and dam that has been published in the Main Line Times. The link is below:

http://www.mainlinemedianews.com/mainlinesuburbanlife/news/residents-hope-to-save-earle-s-lake-which-straddles-radnor/article_9ef0edd7-f513-510d-920a-26190f44f178.html

The following -- with references to next steps -- is taken from the story:

START TEXT:
Virginia Cain, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Environmental Protection, said that the Earle’s Lake dam, which caused the lake to form, is regulated by her agency.

“Earle’s Lake dam was declared to be an unsafe dam by DEP on September 20, 2011 due to a seriously inadequate spillway and deterioration of the dam,” said Cain. The “DEP has worked with the (Green Countrie Village) Home Owner’s Association (HOA) and their engineer to discuss both repair and removal options. DEP required the HOA to move quickly on their decision to repair or remove Earle’s Lake Dam due to further deterioration of the dam over the past year. The HOA has decided to move forward with the removal option.”

“Final design plans will be submitted to DEP for review later this summer,” Cain added. “It is anticipated that the removal of the dam would occur in the summer of 2019. The removal of Earle’s Lake dam will result in the elimination of risks associated with a high-hazard dam.”
END TEXT

FYI.

Thank you Watchdog! Just one correction the article is in the Main Line Suburban Life newspaper. It is on stands today and dated Sunday April 8, 2018. Also important to note, at the end of the article the reporter spoke to Radnor township and they appear to be very interested and concerned about the removal of the dam.

START TEXT:
Radnor BOC President and Ward 4 Commissioner Lisa Borowski has been working on the issue with the dam.

“Ashley Wilson, who lives right on Earle’s Lake, first brought the situation with the lake to my attention right after I was elected,” said Borowski. “Since that time, I have been working with (township engineer) Steve Norcini as he coordinates with the PA Department of Environmental Protection and (state Sen.) Daylin Leach’s office to obtain information and studies about the impacts of a potential partial dam breach, which I think is what the owners have proposed.”

“We will continue to work with the state and Newtown Township to protect the interests of Radnor Township properties and residents. Before any action is taken we also need to clearly understand what this means to the Darby Creek, which where the water from any proposed dam breach would drain, in the immediate area and downstream. We need to assess how it will impact property adjacent to the lake and downstream along Darby Creek. What are these impacts in the event of a breach and in the event of large scale rainfall if the lake is no longer there? Lots of questions to be answered and we hope to work collaboratively with all interested parties to make sure these questions are answered before any project moves forward.”

Reminder to Greene Countrie Village condo owners: A "Meet the Candidates" meeting will be held Tuesday, April 24, 2018, at the clubhouse on Earles Lane. The meeting will begin at 7 p.m. and will include a presentation of GCV's 2017 audit by accountant Lorraine J. Grassi.

Four seats on the seven-member GCV condo council will be decided in the election. The candidates, in alphabetical order, are:

---Allen Breitenbach
---Elisa D'Amato
---Ron Fedora
---FJ Leto
---Jamie Lyons
---Tom Reiley
---Geoff Scholl
---Sharon Miller Trackman

GCV unit owners already should have received by U.S. mail a ballot, proxy form, copies of candidate profiles and other election information. Owners who did not receive the information should call GCV on-site manager Patricia DiFabio at (610) 353-2505.

The election meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, May 1, 2018, and voting is under way at this time. GCV unit owners who want to vote before the election meeting may do so by 1) completing and signing the directed proxy form, 2) marking the ballot, and 3) submitting the signed proxy and the marked ballot before 4:30 p.m. Monday, April 30, 2018. Ballots and proxy forms may be submitted before the deadline in any of the following ways:

---Hand-delivered in a sealed envelope to the GCV office at 323 Earles Lane.

---Sent by U.S. mail to Greene Countrie Village Owners Association, Attn: Patricia DiFabio, First Service Residential, 323 Earles Lane, Newtown Square, PA 19073. (Reminder: Mail has to be received by the office no later than the April 30 deadline noted above.)

---Sent via email to Patricia.Difabio@fsresidential.com.

---Sent by fax to the GCV manager at (610) 353-3352.

Note 1: The election meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, May 1, 2018, as noted in the election letter sent to owners by GCV manager Patricia DiFabio. The proxy form included with the election letter mistakenly refers to May 2.

Note 2: The last name of GCV council candidate Elisa D'Amato is misspelled on the printed ballot as "DaMato."

Not sure if any neighbors or residents noticed the flooding around here on Monday during that rain storm and how high the lake got. I wanted to share a letter that has been sent to the DEP and township:

The dam that creates Earle’s Lake was built in 1910 as a recreational facility. It was constructed on my family’s large estate amongst many other farms. It was constructed in an area that would flood in excessive rain storms so it was felt that building a dam to control the discharge rate would solve many downstream problems as well as create an attractive amenity for my family and local residents.
The original and existing dam height are several feet above normal lake level with a lower spillway to permit excessive runoff from upstream to be released in a controlled fashion. Contrary to the quoted report, the lake was designed as a storm water management facility BEFORE storm water management was an issue and impervious coverage was not a consideration.
Since the dam was constructed, many homes, roads and other impervious surfaces have been added within the extensive watershed area that now drains into the lake, increasing the storm water issue significantly! In the recent past, when it was noted that in a fifty-year storm, that the dam was nearly overrun, the normal lake level was subsequently lowered, by sixteen inches below the spillway height. This reduced the pressure on the dam and added significant storm water retainage to the facility, contrary to the report noted that stated that the lake has NO storm water retainage value. The lake is approximately 5 1/2 acres but with the additional surface due to increased storm volume gives approximately seven acres of retainage. This gives the facility over three million gallons of storm water retainage.
In the storm on April 16, 2018, the water level of the lake rose to the point where water was pouring over the spillway and this was not a significant or rated rainfall! Without the dam and existing spillway system, which worked as designed, the rain water retained behind the dam, over three million gallons, would have gone directly downstream in an immediate flow. If the dam had been removed and replaced by a simple stream bed, this would have created significant flooding and silting downstream (you can see the silt in the film from Asley Wilson attached). If this had been a serious storm without the dam, the results would be significantly more problematic.
Keep in mind the total watershed area draining into the lake is tens of thousands of acres and the final report should reflect this. Creating a wetland for wild life is a myth since many species now inhabiting the space would be displaced or eliminated and it would become a breeding ground for mosquitos, rodents, etc. The fish would essentially be gone, along with the eagles, egrets, turtles, geese etc.
Removing the dam will create more problems than are now being considered and a significant liability for someone!

April 25, 2018:

The Greene Countrie Village board of directors shared the following information from the board's regular meeting held Feb. 22, 2018, about the condo community's plans to remove the dam at Earle's Lake, to drain the lake, and to restore the original stream channel:

At 6 p.m. on Feb. 22, "Board business was put on hold to have a scheduled meeting with VOEL [the adjacent Village of Earle's Lake condo development, which has a 30 percent financial responsibility for Earle's Lake and the dam] regarding the dam/lake timeline and their financial responsibility in the project. At this point the survey should be completed by the end of March 2018. The designs and permitting process should be complete by the end of 2018. Design is at this point estimated at $48,000 and construction approximately $300,000 to $600,000."

The minutes also state: "An initial discussion was had regarding the assessment for the dam and new roofs."

...

Two notes about the meeting minutes:

---The "survey" mentioned likely refers to the bathymetric survey of the bottom of Earle's Lake that had to be completed. Such a survey measures water volume, charts the lake bottom and its contours, and provides a measurable "picture" of the submerged area.

---It is not clear in the meeting minutes if the "design" and "construction" costs referenced are for the design and construction of the total project -- removing the dam, draining the lake, and restoring the original stream channel; or, if the costs listed reflect the price of something less than the project's total cost, such as the first phase of a multi-phase project. ... Likewise, it is not clear whether the costs noted are GCV's 70 percent share of the total bill, or if the costs noted would be shared by GCV (70 percent) and the Village of Earle's Lake (30 percent).

A REMINDER to Greene Countrie Village condo owners: The GCV board of directors election is under way at this time. Eight candidates are competing for four seats on the seven-member board. Ballots and proxy forms may be submitted until 4:30 p.m. Monday, April 30, 2018. Owners also may vote at the election meeting, scheduled for Tuesday, May 1, 2018, at the clubhouse. ...

Questions about the voting process may be directed to GCV on-site manager Trish DiFabio. Call (610) 353-2505 or send email to Patricia.DiFabio@fsresidential.com.

CORRECTIONS: Greene Countrie Village has notified the community that the minutes from the Feb. 22, 2018, board meeting contained two errors. An email sent to GCV unit owners states the following:

"[T]he 2.22.2018 Homeowner Minutes were posted without two corrections being made. The first was that the survey about Earle's Lake was scheduled to be completed at the end of March. It should have stated April. Secondly, it was noted that discussions have begun regarding a special assessment for the dam and roofs. This discussion was only regarding the dam, not the roofs. ..."

April 30, 2018

With a Greene Countrie Village condo board election under way at this time, and to be decided on May 1, 2018, the GCV board of directors has posted on APRIL 26, 2018 the redacted minutes from the board's MARCH 29, 2018 meeting. The posting of the minutes from a meeting held less than one month ago is a record for this board. Minutes have never been posted this "quickly."

The minutes tell condo owners that they will have to pay a special monthly assessment for 6 months of this year, starting in July 2018, for costs related to the Earle's Lake and dam removal project, and then another monthly assessment in 2019, also for costs associated with the breaching of the dam at Earle's Lake and the draining of the lake.

The 2018 assessment will begin in July 2018, based on the approving vote by board president Blanche Reiner and board members Fred Albert, Ann Cotton, Ron Fedora (treasurer, who is seeking re-election at this time) and Tom Reiley. The other two members of the 7-member board -- Alan Breitenbach (who is seeking re-election at this time) and Joe Dangovetsky (who is not seeking re-election) -- are listed as "absent" in the redacted meeting minutes.

The assessment for the lake/dam that will start in July 2018 is being levied AFTER the GCV owners have already paid a special assessment to fund a dedicated Dam Reserve Fund lake/dam fund to pay for costs related to the lake/dam and AFTER the GCV board borrowed $2 million in 2012 to pay for capital improvement projects to include repairs to the dam at Earle's Lake. The dedicated Dam Reserve Fund was spent by the board to pay for monthly inspections of the dam. And none of the money from the 10-year $2 million loan was spent on the lake/dam, according to the board president and other members of the GCV board. A board presentation shows that the $2 million loan was spent on other repairs.

The minutes from the March 29, 2018, GCV board meeting state that the special assessment for lake/dam costs will be assessed on all unit owners for 6 months, starting in July 2018.

The amount of the special assessment to be levied in 2019 for lake/dam costs will be decided in the fourth quarter of 2018 and will be based on "firm estimates that will be available at that time," according to the meeting minutes.

Context: The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection ordered Greene Countrie Village in September 2011 to either remove the dam and drain the lake, or repair/rebuild the dam so it meets current state and federal regulations.

The state DEP said at the time that it would prefer that the dam be removed and the lake be drained, and GCV condo owners subsequently voted, in 2012, to do that. Since that vote in 2012, the GCV board has not taken action to remove the dam and drain the lake.

The state DEP has classified the dam as "high hazard" not because it is failing, but because of the potential for property damage and personal injury and/or loss of life downstream IF it does fail.

May 1, 2018:

Greene Countrie Village condo owners today/May 1 elected 2 challengers and re-elected 2 incumbents to their 7-member board of directors.

Joining the board for the first time are GCV condo owners FJ Leto and Sharon Miller Trackman.

Re-elected were Ronald Fedora, who has served several terms on the board; and Tom Reiley, who was appointed to the board after the May 2017 election to fill an opening caused by the pre-election resignation of board member Sheldon Gantz.

Just sharing this: The small white van that this week has been moving slowly through Greene Countrie Village in Newtown Square, Pa., -- and was seen near Earle's Lake today (May 6, 2018) -- belongs to the survey team that is working on the Delaware County property reassessment project.

The survey work will provide information that the county will use to reassess all 200,000-plus parcels of property in the county. The reassessment was ordered by a judge. The survey is being done by Tyler Technologies, based in Plano, Texas.

The reassessment project will continue through 2020. Delaware County expects to issue tax bills in 2021 that will use the updated values.

Given the crucial role of the Greene Countrie Village Condo Association Board of Directors in the future of the condo community and Earle's Lake, it is important to keep up with the membership.

During the recent spring election, held in May 2018, four of the board's seven seats were on the ballot.

Re-elected were Ronald Fedora, who also is the board's treasurer; and Tom Reiley, who was appointed to the board after the May 2017 election to fill a vacancy caused by the pre-election resignation of Sheldon Gantz.

Newcomers elected to the board in May 2018 were Francis J. "FJ" Leto Jr. and Sharon Miller Trackman.

Three days after the election, Sharon Miller Trackman resigned, saying she decided she could contribute to the condo community more effectively at this time as a non-board member.

GCV board member (and new president) Fred Albert told GCV condo owners that the new vacancy created by the resignation was offered to the next-highest vote-getter. That candidate turned down the invitation, Albert said. With that, the new vacancy was offered to Allan Breitenbach, who had just lost his seat on the board in the May election. Breitenbach accepted the appointment, which was approved by the board.

Here's an interesting aerial photo that shows Earle's Lake at Greene Countrie Village in Newtown Square, Pa. The photo shows Earle's Lane as it goes past the lake and includes the two private homes (A. Wilson and N. Hensley) whose property lines include part of the lake and/or the dam. ... The photo is part of a GCV condo listing on a real estate website, FYI.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/142-E-Chelsea-Cir_Newtown-Square_PA_19073_M48223-48127#photo20

Good afternoon to Newtown Square PA, Ashley, Nadine and of course Watchdog. As some are aware, I did not run a campaign to be reelected as an association board member for GCV.

My decision was based on many factors one of which was my ineffectiveness with the other 2016-17 members. Though I believe some are very dedicated, there was too much animosity for me to bare. I can only wish the 2018 board will have some success.

Both the BOD and FirstService did not ask me for an exit interview. Most often these interviews are announced publicly. I know many unit owners in addition to board members visit this forum, so maybe I'll publish it here.

Our GCV rules and Pennsylvania Statutes prevent me from spilling any spicy details however, nothing prevents me from sharing anything I personally created with my copyrighted memoranda.

Should anyone have a question or require a clarification please notify me. Most of you have my various email addresses as do I have yours.

Thank you all for your time and input. I hope to channel my efforts in other ways that can be more effective for our community.

JoeDy

Have no idea why my last post was rejected. It was a thank you for Ashley, Nadine and Watchdog and a simple explanation of my next moves. It appears using my real name caused this instantaneous result. I may have to go incognito.

Joe Dy that is so odd. This post came through! I hope you are able to post your explanation of your next moves. We are anxious to hear them.

@JoeDy the previous message came through now!

Thanks TTC, being my first post I was befuddled as to why my words were rejected. I see now the site is conscious of the content. Somebody reviewed it then passed it. Hey, thanks for the update. I've read all your posts and this whole thread. Like Ashley said, I also found this site during my 2015 due diligence. I am not out of line by saying, this forum is not very well liked by some but watched with a magnifying glass by the same. I'm looking forward to maybe a different approach on my part.

Welcome to the "draining of Earles Lake" thread, JoeDy. Thanks for adding your voice and perspective to this discussion.

I trust everyone enjoyed the Memorial Day celebrations and fanfare. At this time, I’d like to wish the 2018 BOD all the success especially the new president and our latest or newest member. Hey with a little bit of new moisture maybe we can bring a stale loaf of bread back to life.

It looks like GCV will be busy this summer season as the recently published meeting minutes seem to indicate. Though some may think this is a new day dawning others knowing the system will and should remain very skeptical. Keep in mind that the last time a real subcommittee was formed it fizzled almost immediately upon the watchful and intimidating eyes of several board members. Notice the idea of five subcommittees but nothing on the description of each. We know there were discussions or titles given but nothing to write home about? Minutes to meetings are most oftentimes manipulated. Here is a case where the minutes imply five committees but no words are written to describe the intentions. As one neighbor recently mentioned to me, the recordings seem to indicate a fifteen minute BOD meeting. This proves my point of over a year ago when I questioned the authenticity of our meeting minutes.

Five subcommittees with a minimum of three to five people with some overlap will require a minimum of fifteen to twenty five unit owners, (over 10% of our Association). This is or will be a monumental task. What would ever make the Association believe five lipstick colors will dress this pig in style? The 2017 board of directors successfully dismantled the beautification committee made up of very dedicated people. More than likely the 2018 board will follow the same path because a majority of directors seated are career and lifetime board members. It will be interesting to see how this evolves. Who in their right frame of mind would sit on a committee where two board members also sit in judgement before any real work can be accomplished?

I would help but on the condition that a subcommittee runs by itself and reports back to the board with accurate meeting decisions, recordings or minutes. A subcommittee must act on its own to be successful. Otherwise it only becomes a self-serving bias for the BOD nothing more. Once recommendations are forwarded to the board, then and only then should the BOD's decision be applied. A repeat of the 2016-17 intimidation tactics is inevitable unless this new BOD changes its tune.

Happy Trails To You.

Keep this in mind as we proceed.

What does this have to do with Saving the Lake? "JoeDy" seems to have issues about Greene Country Village that have nothing to do with the lake? What exactly is this forum for?

Howdy Neighbor, welcome to the lake forum. Since the aforementioned appears to be your very short inaugural post, I’ll add that you may not know me. Anyone who does will tell you I’ve put plenty into this effort. There are many in our community with an abundance of issues, some of great importance but they all are spearheaded by the draining, breaching, or whatever you want to call it. Everyone who writes here knows exactly where or how to find me. Feel free to fire off an email, thedukeofearles@comcast.net I’m more than willing to pass along any of my research and intellectual property pertaining to these issues.

“….sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you…” The breaching has become reality. The Association, management and peripheral neighbors have done all they can to date. Our dam is labeled critical by PA DEP therefore she’s a ‘goner. This next phase is crucial in my mind since the resulting landscape and wildlife will change drastically. The association is very lucky to have a new leader with the specific professionalism need for this monumental task and only the Lord knows what would be happening otherwise as seen with the 2016-17 lake sale debacle(s).

I like to think of our village as a bit of a rusty old antique Ford due a much needed overhaul preferably from the inside to out. I’m presently just one can of used engine oil, had my run, and now grey being recycled. Expect a few impurities to dribble out.

Calm Down "Neighbor" if that is what you are. I think I speak for everyone in saying JoeDy's posts have been the best on this forum. It is nice to get a view into the inner workings of the machine sometimes, especially when there has been a severe lack of transparency. Saying that, I hope he is wrong about the breaching becoming a reality because I am very concerned about the possible liability and lawsuits that will result from pursuing this. A lot has changed since the original vote, it would be nice for the newer community members to have a voice. How long can a community vote be upheld before it is considered expired?

When I purchased my unit at GCV, I remember the realtor who showed me the unit I purchased driving slowly down the big hill on E. Chelsea, giving me a good look of the lake. It was a strong selling point, the beautiful, verdant view. Hopefully the dismantling of the lake will not come to fruition.

A few years ago, a friend of mine looked at units at GCV and chose not to buy. Why? She saw the evidence of disrepair: rusty garage doors, carports whose roofs were sagging, another carport on the east side - the stucco is gone, exposing rotting wood. This does not look good. If you saw such neglect, plus, if you were astute enough to ask if there were assessments in place, would you buy?

I'm with you Another Neighbor meaning I hope I'm wrong too. Breaching the dam can in essence be accomplished in almost an infinite number of methods and amounts of drain from a dam repair to a full removal of the lake.

To this day I state that no one has shown me any visual proof of what the real condition of the lakebed, dam structural base components or any condition below the waterline surface. No underwater photos have ever been taken. Tell me how DEP can simply condemn a structure without substantial proof? The answer is simply by mandate. All other similar aged dams are falling apart so Earles Lake and Dam must be deteriorated also.

I asked the Association several times to spend the $3500-$5000 for a professional diving team. I had an out of town team ready a year ago.

I want to add that once I realized I had lost the title bout I wanted to toss in the towel very gently. I followed several other newer members in proceeding with a capable professional engineer with this exact experience to prepare the concepts, scope, design development, preliminary plans, on into the project contract, bidding, construction, construction supervision and on into project close-out. This we accomplished solely on the assistance of the newer 2017 board.

For now we should be on a straight course and what transpires in these next investigative or preliminary steps will define the design steps. Again my experience is in building towards the heavens, but any architectural or engineering problem starts with the same basics or fundamentals before the specialty disciplines branch out.

If for some reason management and the BOD decide to follow the ‘two minute drill’, (not the clock), meaning redacting field reports, construction meeting minutes, blanking out AIA payment information, we can and should set up a “Eagle Eye” camera to get 24 hour, on the hour visual updates that any experienced person can publicly report on. We should be able to see where our money is being spent.

It's very possible yesterday's post by 'Neighbor' may have been a plant. I attempted to play nice in this sandbox just in case it could be a real new member. Who would post once and with a few sentences?

The latest came over the wires a bit ago, Facebook! Sorry friends, not my shtick. FB still gives out your personal information if you’re not savvy enough to set your preferences properly. Can you comment without restrictions by the host, the builder etc.?

In an attempt to answer Another Neighbor’s $64,000 Question, there is no specific time-clock to the voted upon, majority ruled, therefore enacted mandate. The Declaration spells out clearly the path necessary to overrule any order.

A meeting is scheduled at the Radnor Township Building to discuss the implications of removing the damn from Earle's Lake, and concerns regarding stomwater drainage and its impact on Radnor and Marple Townships. The details:

June 14, 2018
7 pm
301 Iven Avenue

@treehugger thank you for that info! I'm assuming this is open to the public?

Open to the public, yes!

Just sharing a link to a news story in today's (June 14, 2018) Philadelphia Inquirer about the impact of land trusts in the region. The two land trusts mentioned at the top of the story -- Willistown Conservation Trust and Natural Lands Trust -- are the trusts that hosted meetings in August 2016 about the status of Earle's Lake at the Greene Country Village condo community in Newtown Square, Pa. The meetings were organized by the chairman and vice chairman -- Bruce Killen and Cindy Mehallow, respectively -- of the Newtown Township Environmental Advisory Council. At the time, a partnership called TCFS Partners LLC had proposed buying the lake and some surrounding acreage from the Greene Countrie Village Owners' Association with plans for TCFS to build townhouses on the site.

http://www.philly.com/philly/health/environment/land-trusts-natural-lands-chester-county-new-jersey-pennsylvania-20180614.html

To make informed decisions, Greene Countrie Village homeowners need to know the value of the lake and surrounding land - some 7 + acres. A professional survey by a licensed civil engineer and land development options are needed. This site has a HUGE revenue potential for the struggling Greene Countrie Village Homeowners Association.

The value is also needed for tax purposes in the event they give the site to a trust or the township.

#SaveEarlesLake, I was under the impression that selling the land was explored and once the interested parties explored it further it was deemed the land was of no value? Why would we spend even more money on something that has already failed.

"I was under the impression that selling the land was explored and once the interested parties explored it further it was deemed the land was of no value? Why would we spend even more money on something that has already failed."

This is not correct, what happened is the interested parties (GCV council and "TCFS partners") were never able to come to agreeable terms on a deal. However, based on the presentation that TCFS gave to GCV membership, selling the land was not actually explored in any kind of serious way. For example, GCV council never even had the land appraised and TCFS never did any kind of market study. There was far too much critical information completely missing to have any kind of reasonable idea of what the land is actually worth.

Also hi all, I'm another concerned GCV homeowner here for the discussion.

I attended the meeting tonight at Radnor Township. Basically, Radnor Township said they didn't know anything about the damn project and they would definitely look into it.

I personally do not remember any words or discussions with "no value" being used. From my standpoint it was almost the opposite. Land value was never a major factor in any discussion with the developers. I mentioned land value several times but was ignored. All TCFS offers and discussions within the negotiation process of 2016-17 never touched true Newtown Square land or ground values. The 2016 board did not care about getting the biggest bang for the buck but rather seemed to care more about a fire sale. At the time of the negotiations land sales were in the range of approximately $55,000-$65,000 an acre. The board was in a giveaway mood of about $35,000 per acre. Circa September 2016 I presented my digital land survey report and single handedly asked the board, the developers and our lawman to define to me, a simple board member and unit owner, exactly which seven and a half acres GCV was selling. Nobody, not one single person could show me either physically or by pointing to my maps and drawings any idea of the land shape or configuration being offered. At the time and a new member I was appalled at the inability and inexperience of the 2016 board.

The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight, (the board, lawyers and developers) were on the path to selling and buying a parcel of land without mapping it. ‘Sell then define’ was the plan. The board was satisfied to sign and bank whatever chump change was sitting on the table before defining the actual plot in essence giving the developers a pick of the litter. The stupidly of the many players in the proposed settlement was unfounded. An unsophisticated board, a CYA oriented management company, a retired Township manager and a rookie or first time development team were all in this mix together, the blind leading the blind. The Association should thank their Lucky Charms this deal fell through.

Don't let anyone kid you in thinking the lake and surrounding grounds are worthless. Even if the lake was contaminated with PCB'ls, Texas Tea or Liquid Gold, the land is still green............ with money.

If we were to poll our association I'm willing to guess maybe 5% of our ownership has ever heard of The Allegheny Front or American Rivers. I say this to enlighten some people who may not know Pennsylvania leads our nation in removing dams that do not provide drinking water or flood control. In 2016 of the seventy or so dams removed throughout the entire country, ten or close to fifteen percent were removed right here in Pennsylvania.

Our state has five listings or categories and as of 2016 our lake fell to Category Five or the worst therefore, for all intent and purpose, condemned. During this time, no one has questioned the state with its category label especially the estimated death rate in a potential catastrophe. A category five is applied when the death toll in an accident is estimated to be greater than 100 people. Someone please show me where an entire dump of Earles Lake, (an unlikely Mother Nature Event), could ever cause 100 deaths. Maybe a tsunami on opening day of trout fishing at Sawmill Road could. It’s possible the entire lake could dump and not a downstream person would get their knees wet. To date no one has challenged the state. Where is all the FSR experience in matters of this nature? Constantly touting size and experience but frankly there is none. Where is the lawman’s experience? These two entities are nothing more than typical CYA bunk buddies. Someday the board and Association will realize these people work for us and can be changed at any time.

Is it possible that in some cases our environmental push goes too far? No doubt there are and will be many successful stories of changing landscapes and waterways. There are also stories of mistakes made, bureaucratic boondoggles and hefty expenditures. Where our lake and the present engineering effort fall in place has not been determined. We can only hope for a successful trek through these woods.

Some historians say the lake was man-made for fishing and swimming while some say storm water control could have had some relevancy. It is conceivable storm water wasn’t’ a concern in the 1800’s but it could be today. Back when Earles built the dam and created the lake, our entire community including all the present impervious rooftops, driveways, roads and simply, an asphalt jungle, didn’t exist. Eventually the local officials will have the major say in how rainwater will be directed to existing storm drains. It’s very possible the present system is adequate, stands on its own and therefore is not a concern.

Only some of this matters at this point in time. Pennsylvania's Department of Environmental Protection dictates, I'm sorry, mandates we remove our dam therefore draining the water body. The political atmosphere seems to be comfy and cozy when private money boxes are forced open. Some authoritative obstacles may be looming behind the curtain. Except for the recently mentioned township meeting nothing has been published to date regarding any major local official lake business. Who knows what additional governmental fences will be constructed along the way. One simple example is the townships borderline. It runs through the intended construction area. Moreover, there is a shared sanitary sewer main traveling center to the spillway of the dam. Some say it's a measuring or meter station while others claim it to be a pumping or vertical lift station. Our eastern campus sanitary exit main joins Radnor Township smack dab in the middle of where we will be draining. We hope the sanitary lateral is deep enough below grade as to not disturb our efforts. The planning stage should uncover any problems. The mere fact two local governing bodies are joining the state and possibly the feds in this monumental task could be overwhelming. The paperwork alone could upset Hammermill. Sadly this present path will be treacherous and costly.

The engineering proposal review was extensive and well conducted. The owners should feel comfortable with the selected professionals and the preliminary concept. What the engineers uncover during their design development stage will create the strategy going forward towards building the contract documents. These will be the "blueprints" for the construction process. Hopefully sometime during the jump from concept to paper an intro or summary is presented to the Association.

Keep digging, maybe we find a pony, a diamond………

Picking up on what Another Neighbor is saying, ‘exploring’ is and was not the greatest trait of our management, lawyers or the earlier boards of 2012-2917. The team in addition to the stale, undesirable and swamp type perennial board members have no great real estate or construction experience. I’m attaching a pic of one of my land survey documents. I laid this on the boardroom table sometime during mid-2016. I picked this spot as a talking point and example only. The result was the group was intimidated, didn’t understand what I was trying to accomplish and therefore shelved my topic. “WE’LL SELL FIRST THEN SEE WHERE THE SEVEN AND A HALF ACRES LAND”. “LET THE DEVELOPERS PICK THE PARCEL”. The pic shows two arbitrary rectangles or plots. I estimated the acreage and all I requested was to forward this to the developers to superimpose their idea and at least give us an awareness of where they intended to build. I personally was interested in what the remaining track of land would look like therefore lending to a future landscape design. The lesson learned and in opinion I was associating with tunnel vision laypeople. This may be permissible in other instances but in a case of this magnitude and complexity and looking back in retrospect, we never had the proper people elected or instilled to represent us in full and with the proper architectural and engineering knowledge for this challenge. In essence we allowed the artist to build the frame before the first brush stroke to the painting was made. Remember it’s a known fact the initial ‘Drain the Lake’ vote was coerced as so many unit owners tell me. Chicken Little was on cue a few years back and still is. It’s a wonder Noah hasn’t been seen nearby preparing for our big flood.

Just an FYI:

The one and a half acre building lot currently known as 11 Earles Lane in Radnor Township (near the intersection of Malin and Earles) sold in 2014 for $850,000. A house has since been built on the lot and the total assessed value is $1,365,000.

The house next door known as #7 Earles Lane Newtown Square post office but Radnor Schools is a luxury home on one acre currently listed for sale at $1,695,000

These parcels are subdivided from an original parcel known as 646 Sawmill Road Newtown Square - a 4 acre property with a home. Summit Hill Development LLC purchased the entire property known as 646 Sawmill Road for $2,250,000 in December 2007.

New construction townhomes in Liseter Newtown Square begin at $554,995. Townhomes in the recently completed community of Muirwood Newtown Square were listed in the mid 400's. A resale in that community is available today for $509,999.

Information to thoughtfully consider.

Earles Lake IS a valuable asset to Greene Countrie Village!

The Newtown Township Board of Supervisors will meet at 7 p.m. Tuesday, July 9. At the meeting, the board will consider advertising to the public its proposed Cluster Development Ordinance. If approved, the ordinance, among other things, will allow denser development in some parts of the township. ... The Cluster Development Ordinance was referenced in July 2016 and August 2016 at several meetings about a proposal to build condos township on and around the Earle's Lake property. The meetings involved 2 members of the township Environmental Advisory Council representatives of the Natural Lands Trust and the Willistown Conservation Trust. FYI. ...

Read the agenda online at this link:

https://newtowntownship.civicweb.net/Portal/MeetingInformation.aspx?Id=281

The agenda includes a link to the Cluster Development Ordinance.

What follows is some of the text from the proposed ordinance:

13.

NEW BUSINESS:

13.1

Consider approving the permission to advertise the amended Cluster Ordinance

ActionMemo_Cluster 7-5-2018

Cluster Dev Ord 6-27-18

Section 1. Chapter 172 of the Code of Newtown Township is hereby amended by deleting the entirety of Article XXD, Sections 172-100.26-172.100.32 and replacing it as follows:

Chapter 172. ZONING Article XXD. Cluster Development Community Overlay District

172-100.26. Purpose; objectives. A. It is the purpose of this article to encourage greater flexibility in the design and development of residential housing, while also encouraging the preservation of open space and creation of passive and active recreational amenities, by permitting the cluster development of residential housing as an alternative to conventional, single-family lot development or other residential lot requirements. .

In addition to the zoning objectives set forth in Sections 172-3 and 172-4, the specific objectives of this article are the following:

(1) To encourage innovations in residential development so that the demand for housing may be met by greater variety in type, design and layout of dwellings;

(2) To encourage the conservation and preservation of open space, vistas, scenic roads, stream valleys, agricultural land, trees, natural topography and other natural resources and amenities.

(3) To provide increased flexibility in the land development regulations of the Township in order to encourage development that recognizes advances in the theory and practice of site planning, design, and green technology.

(4) To conserve land and preserve open space by allowing for reduced lot sizes.

(5) To encourage the use of ingenuity, imagination and sustainable design to produce residential developments which are in keeping with the objectives of the Township's Comprehensive Plan.

(6) To provide for cluster development in areas that are consistent with the goals of the Township's Comprehensive Plan, in particular Chapter Three, Land Use Plan, the Natural Resources Protection Plan and the Community Facilities Plan, and compatible with and protective of the existing character of the community, especially its natural features.

(7) To decrease or minimize the amount of impervious surfaces in site development;

(8) To implement stormwater infiltration measures integrated into the site design that will return water to the soil in excess of NPDES requirements for volume of infiltrated water where site and soil conditions allow, based upon soils testing and where suitable infiltration rates exist.

(9) To provide for on-site facilities and services which allow the residents of a cluster development community to minimize the necessity for automobile trips in their daily lives by encouraging on-site movement by foot or bicycle. (10) To provide facilities, residential design and site layouts that encourage cohesiveness and interaction among residents of a cluster development community.

(11) To provide for private and public recreation, both active and passive, within the development tract.

(12) To contribute to the establishment of a community-wide trail and greenway system. .

B. This article is also intended to implement Section 604, Zoning Purposes, of the Pennsylvania Municipalities Planning Code( MPC) insofar as this article is designed to promote, protect and facilitate coordinated and practical community development and proper density of population; the preservation of the natural, scenic and historic values in the environment and preservation of forests, wetlands, aquifers and floodplains; and to provide for the use of land within the municipality for residential housing of various dwelling types, encompassing all basic forms of housing, including single-family and two-family dwellings and a reasonable range of multifamily dwellings in various arrangements.

This article is further intended to implement Section 605, Classifications, of the MPC insofar as this article is designed to encourage innovation and the promotion of flexibility, economy and ingenuity in development and for the purpose of authorizing increases in the permissible density of population or intensity of a particular use based upon expressed standards and criteria as set forth in this article.

REMINDER: The Greene Countrie Village condo association, which owns Earle's Lake in Newtown Square, will meet Thursday (Sept. 27, 2018) to get an update on the GCV board's plan to breach the dam, drain the lake and mitigate the site. The meeting is scheduled to begin at 7 p.m. in the clubhouse. Eric J. Ditchey, an engineer hired by GCV to perform the required initial surveys, is scheduled to attend the meeting and make a presentation.

AN UPDATE from the meeting held Thursday evening (Sept. 27, 2018) at the Greene Countrie Village condo clubhouse in Newtown Square, Pa. The primary topic on the agenda was the status of plans by Greene Countrie Village to breach the dam at Earle's Lake, drain the lake, and mitigate the site.

Engineer Eric J. Ditchey, who has been hired by Greene Countrie to complete the required engineering and design work, spoke to the GCV condo owners who attended the session. Key points made by Mr. Ditchey about the project include the following:

--The engineering and design work is about 60 percent complete.

--No cost estimate is available at this time, but one should be provided by early November of this year.

--The plan calls for installing a temporary access road behind the GCV clubhouse and pool to accommodate trucks, equipment and work crews.

--Pumps will be positioned on or near the dam to begin the process of drawing down the lake. Water will be pumped from the lake and into the existing stream. Pumps will be repositioned, as needed, as the lake level falls.

--Wildlife will be relocated as required, at appropriate times, and in accordance with government regulations.

--The sewer line by the dam that is used and maintained by the Radnor-Haverford-Marple Sewer Authority will be covered with concrete to protect it during demolition and excavation.

--Sediment from the bottom of the lake will be excavated and removed from the site for disposal.

--Once the lake has been drained, the lake site will be graded as needed to allow the existing stream to return to its natural channel.

Barring any unforeseen delays, Mr. Ditchey said, the plan for the project will be submitted for review to the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection in November or December, and no later than Dec. 31, 2018.

Assuming the plan is approved by the state DEP -- and by other parties who have standing in the matter -- the Greene Countrie Village board of directors will start the bid process to identify and hire a qualified contractor.

The board has said previously that it wants the demolition and draining to start in 2019.

REMINDER: A previously announced special assessment will be levied on Greene Countrie Village condo owners in 2019 to help pay for the lake/dam project. The amount of the assessment will be decided in the fourth quarter of 2018 and will be based on "firm estimates that will be available at that time," according to the minutes or an earlier GCV board meeting. That assessment will be in addition to the special assessment condo owners started paying in July 2018 and will continue to pay through through December 2018.

As I approached from Malin Road to make my left onto Earles Lane, I noticed a newly erected blue and yellow historical landmark designation sign from the state. It seems the site adjacent to Earles Lake has been proclaimed a landmark; as the birthplace of former Gov. Earle of PA. I wonder how this will impact the dismantling of the lake?

Good question, TreeHugger. I believe that the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, which authorized the sign, will have a chance to review any plan put forward by the Greene Countrie Village condo community to dismantle the dam and drain Earle's Lake.

The sign posted on Earle's Lane at Malin Road was unveiled Friday (Sept. 28, 2018) during a small ceremony at the site. The sign is authorized by the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission and issued through its Historical Marker Program. (Online: https://www.phmc.pa.gov/Preservation/Historical-Markers/Pages/default.aspx .)

The sign notes that George H. Earle III, a former governor of Pennsylvania, "was born and raised here." The "here" refers to the former Broad Acres estate -- a 1,000-acre estate that straddled Newtown and Radnor townships and was established as a country residence primarily by Earle III's father, George H. Earle Jr. George Earle Jr. died in 1928 and, according to local historians, his residence at Broad Acres sat vacant for most of the next 35 years. The residence was destroyed by fire in 1963. The land was subsequently sold, primarily for residential development. That development includes the single-family homes in the Greene Countrie neighborhood and what would become Greene Countrie Village, the condo community that today owns Earle's Lake.

An item about Friday's dedication of the historical marker has been published online by the Main Line Times at:

http://www.mainlinemedianews.com/mainlinetimes/long-overdue-historical-marker-for-gov-george-earle-iii/article_a05bfd6c-c346-11e8-8f5d-3b1f46e22f35.html .

Perhaps the Historical Commission will pay for repairs on the dam to preserve the historical significance of the site. Someone at GCV should talk to the Historical Commission and ask for funding to repair the dam.

Worth noting: The Mt. Cuba Center, a nonprofit botanical garden in Hockessin, Del., has donated $1.3 million to Kennett Township to go toward preserving open space within the township. Preserving open space is a stated priority for Kennett Township.

Faithful readers of this blog about Earle's Lake know that preserving open space is said to be a stated priority in both Newtown and Radnor townships, home of Earle's Lake.

For details about the donation made by the Mt. Cuba Center, go to:

https://www.dailylocal.com/news/local/kennett-township-receives-million-gift-will-preserve-land/article_156dea14-c7fe-11e8-8620-cf2a84eb2860.html

Learn more about the Mt. Cuba Center at:

https://mtcubacenter.org/

Greene Countrie Village condo owners will get an update about plans to drain Earle's Lake and remove the dam during the condo community's annual budget meeting. The meeting is scheduled for 7 p.m. Tuesday, Dec. 11, in the GCV clubhouse on Earle's Lane in Newtown Square, Pa. In addition to presenting the budget for 2019, GCV Board of Directors will provide an update about "the continued need for a Special Assessment" in 2019 to pay for costs associated with draining the lake, removing the dam, and restoring the site to its natural condition.

Has anyone looked into financial aid for removing the dam from the State of PA? I believe PA has funding set aside for just this type of project.
How about non-profit organizations interested in environmental issues such as the Sierra Club or Pew Foundation?
A Pew family member owns a condo in Village of Earles Lake at 407 Wooded Way. Get in touch with the Earles Lake Board for more information.and assistance. Someone should reach out to her and ask her to go to the Pew Foundation Board for assistance.

Concerned Citizen, I respectfully suggest that maybe you could take initiative to move forward with getting in touch with a board member or the Pew foundation. You seem to have knowledge of financial aid from the state, and know of a Pew family member. As I recall, Ashley Wilson worked tirelessly and unsuccessfully to try and raise funds to save the lake. It may be a lost cause.

Commentary

Though I promised myself I wouldn't be bothered much anymore with the GCV Owners Association "Bored" Members, I can't help myself when someone mentions a specific thought that either I'm very familiar with personally or that was a part of specific discussions during my tenure as a "Bored" Member. Nice to know there is another Pew Foundation person or member living here at GCV. Yes if the aforementioned is correct then there are two Owners here at GCV involved with The Pew Foundation. Ironically the person I'm mentioning is an accountant or money person with the foundation. Furthermore, I brought this entire topic up for thorough discussion over two years ago. Remember, there are a few career “bored” members who orchestrated the initial scam or scare over five years ago. These same hardened members have been steering this ship to this particular destination. From experience one might say only a few are in control. One member keeps saying it's the people's will since they voted for the damn breach. Bullspit, I say. Though I wasn't here during the first vote, I'm told by many that the original referendum was purposely styled as 'beyond repair’, 'too costly to repair' etc. Though it will never happen, if a vote were taken today these same three of four would likely be the only three or four against saving the lake. A term limit rule would have possibly changed this outcome. Four being the majority of seven insures that this whole plan stays just the way it is until the lake is gone. If the Association enacted Term Limits earlier maybe this outcome would have been different.

Remember what was said at the last general meeting. “……we need to have the plans looked at by bidding contractors….before we can identify the project cost…..”. Well Bullspit again. The biggest mistake being made at the moment is that we and our infallible Bored Members have their heads in the sand and their rumps in the air. Letting the engineering team only prepare the documentation without current cost evaluation, cost analysis or exact money concerns, almost insures what is called a “Bid Bust”. This is where the bid being out of an affordable ballpark gets dissected, drawings get tossed, and concepts get jumbled or maybe even the schedule grows. Money, instead of being labeled secondary as it is presently, becomes the primary or governing factor IN ALL DECISIONS.

Any bright individual using the internet as an information source can simply search, “Using Cost Control in the Early Stages of Project Design”, or “The Importance of Construction Project Total Cost During The Preliminary Concept Stage”. It is known at this time that The Bored, our engineer and management hasn’t any inclination as to what this fiasco will cost us. In the Big Leagues, (considering our project to be small potatoes to the Big Boys}, this does not happen in the majority of times. Material cost, labor costs, construction “Phase” budgets, and the like are always prepared simultaneously with the initial concepts and the Design Documentation. Sorry to say but our last newsletter was mistaken and whoever wrote or was fed the notion that we must wait to identify costs was also hoodwinked. The Bored has no idea of cost and is leading the blind masses down a rocky road. Can someone say a half million dollars, three-quarter of a million, a million? No, they cannot unless a professional estimator looks into the concepts. Simple fact; a trained experienced “Estimator” in a design engineers employ or a larger contracting firm, next to the person’s name on the door, is usually the highest paid professional on the team. Now why is that? Simply because the budget or project cost is, in the majority of times, the Number One Priority.

Just remember your grade school mathematics. There are +/- 218 owners or shares in GCV. So divide any cost by 218 and you have your own piece of the pie. A simple example is a half mil will cost you individually approximately $2300.00, three quarter mil approximately $3440.00 and finally a full mil would be nearly $4600.00. This burden may not strike us all but what about our seniors on fixed incomes. Past experience and the Fearsome Foursome’s posture is known for dismissing any long term payment plans. They believe you just simply pay for it and don’t raise any questions. Moreover, the Bored is hesitant to grant a discount to any owner offering a onetime single full payment. I know personally since I fought hard for both discounts and length of payment plans to the three or four add-ons realized during my tenure.
What becomes laughable is the project cost analysis is usually pegged at about 1 to 1-1/2% of your overall expenses. On a half mil that could be $7500.00, to which the first piece or preliminary numbers would have cost $1500.00. Maybe the most important thousand or so dollars ever spent. For now we must follow what our elected officials got us into. Hopefully we hit the necessary homerun.

Last, the Harrisburg bill mentioned in earlier posts pertains to privately owned lakes and dams. The resulting law is nothing to write home about. The grants are given in $2000.00 increments or prizes for helping owners in the filing of State paperwork. The Bored should at least grab these few now if they have the Christmas Balls to do so. There is no Santa in Harrisburg meaning there is no box of money with our name on it.

The First Amendment need not apply here. Sorry

UPDATE: The Greene Countrie Village condo association's board of directors on Tuesday (Dec. 11, 2018) provided an update to unit owners on the board's plans to drain Earle's Lake, breach the dam, and remediate the GCV-owned site in Newtown Square, Pa. The following points about the project are among those made at the meeting:

--The engineering plan for the project, drafted by engineer Eric J. Ditchey, is nearly complete and will be submitted to the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection by the department's Dec. 31, 2018, deadline.

--The projected cost of the project is between $620,000 and $710,000.

--The two townhome/condo communities adjacent to GCV -- Earle's Lake and Water's Edge -- are refusing to pay their shared 30 percent responsibility for the dam/lake project -- an amount that is stipulated in a services agreement between GCV and the two other communities. According to the GCV board, a meeting held in May 2018 with the directors of those two communities resulted in unanimous agreement that the two communities would pay their 30 percent share. Later, a lawyer advised the board members for Earle's Lake and Water's Edge NOT to pay that cost, saying that the two communities are NOT responsible for any costs associated with GCV's plan to breach the dam and drain the lake. The salient point, the lawyer contends, is that the written services agreement between GCV and the two adjacent communities specifies sharing costs associated with the "maintenance" of the dam and lake. Breaching the dam and draining the lake, the lawyer contends, are NOT maintenance.

--The GCV board hopes to be able to demonstrate to the Earle's Lake and Water's Edge board members that the two communities are, in fact, responsible for paying 30 percent of the cost of breaching the dam, draining the lake, and remediating the site.

I know there was a cost estimate done for repairing the dam before, how does it change things knowing that the other communities won't pay to breach? Repairing the Dam would still be considered "maintenance" wouldn't it? Plus people have volunteered to help raise money?

Yes, there was a cost estimate for repairing the dam on Earle's Lake. That estimate was "more than $1 million," according to a presentation made to Greene Countrie Village condo owners, who own the Earle's Lake property. I would guess that "repairing the dam" would qualify as "maintenance," but that issue could be challenged in court, if someone chose to do that.

A key fact to keep in mind is that the required majority of GCV unit owners voted in 2012 to breach the dam and drain the lake. That decision by the unit owners was the result of a mandate from the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Regulation, in September 2011, for GCV to either repair/replace the dam so it would meet current environmental regulations, or breach the dam and drain the lake.

The GCV Board of Directors continues to pursue the course of action endorsed by the majority of GCV unit owners. The GCV board also has considered "best case" and "worst case" scenarios regarding how to pay for the work and has shared some relevant cost projections with the GCV unit owners.

Just a quick search above in a post from Ashley Wilson "I also discovered that GCV is responsible for 70% of the cost, but holds all of the decision making power with respect to the lake, and Water’s Edge Community is responsible for 30% of the cost. With the repair cost I was given by the GCV board of $845,000, that is $591,500 for GCV and $253,500 for Water’s Edge."

Circa early 2018, amaybe a few months before the May election), a meeting was held that included our board and our neighbors including their management representative. At that meeting I voiced the last comment of the evening. I specifically asked that we have our lawyers, Marcus and Hoffman draft an understanding of what took place and what was agreed upon. I was told by our board leader and minutes recording artist that this was not necessary. This coming from people with no construction experience. Furthermore as I stated several times before I was also informed that my comment would not be recorded nor would it be written. Again this is why the Association members have no full or complete idea of what takes place during each and every "Executive Session". Most times the record only shows some of the prepared fruit and not the seeds that were sowed during the meeting.

One must also remember that part if not the majority of times the lawyers are brought in, at our expense, to simply protect FSR. This is a standard practice throughout the industry. However at this time it looks like the board again made a mistake by letting another year slip by sitting on their hands. The board seems to jump at any chance to bring the legal beagles in for an overdue payment of an owner but when there is real cause for legal protection the board becomes "see no evil".

Rest assured that our neighbors will fight this now. They have recognized the weakness of our representation and will exploit this through the courts. So with the added legal fees and a project contingency of 15-20%, the final costs will easily surpass $1.0 MM. No one is addressing the potential for inherent problems, additional engineering, additional administration costs.

Wake up GCV Owners Association, we are in for one expensive roller coaster ride. Remember this come election night. Get rid of these career board members and bring in some competent and maybe experienced help.

JoeDy

There’s no reason adequate funding can’t be raised to save the lake...whether thru a conservation fund, local university and/or collection of private donors. It’s about conservation and the enormous impact that not saving it will have on wildlife for years to come. This is nuts!

There is no reason why adequate funding couldn’t be secured thru a conservation fund, local university and/or collection of private donors. This is about conservation and hundreds of wildlife that rely on this lake.

I agree Ben. I recommend reviewing the posts on this site. Ashley Wilson, the neighbor that owns the property adjacent to the lake, has very informative posts. She researched tirelessly to present options to the GCV Board - to no avail. Homeowners have attended meetings with Newtown Township and conservancies. (see detailed posts from Watchdog) Options are available for Earles Lake. It will take good leadership to do the right thing.

FYI...Townships were just notified of the plan to remove the Dam by Eric Ditchey claiming that "Greene Countrie Village Owners Association has decided that removing the dam, thus eliminating the downstream hazard of a potential dam failure, is the only viable alternative to comply with the law." In other words, it was not mandated by anyone, and there are other options...specifically, "Earles Lake Dam would require extensive reconstruction in order to meet dam safety regulations". Clearly, removal of the dam is not the only option!!!

On January 2, 2019, the Private Dam Financial Assurance Program officially went into effect in PA and is included in the 2018-19 fiscal code. This program includes Condominium and Homeowner Associations. Please see the link to a copy of PA House Bill (If the link does not work, copy and paste into your browser.)This looks to be a viable option for Greene Countrie Village that should be thoroughly explored.

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=PDF&sessYr=2015&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=1712&pn=2580

FYI #SEL, if this is the bill introduced by Rep. Rosemary Brown circa 2015-6 for now is almost worthless. Unless you're referring to some other box of money, this bill, #1712 is almost a pyramid scheme. Each lake and dam owner must pay $1000-2000 into the first pot of money to join the club. Once the PA dam coffers reach $1.5MM then each participant can apply for a loan. Ever visit the zoo's lion kingdom during feeding time or witness a shark frenzy? Guessing there are maybe 1600 private lakes and dams in Pennsylvania, it would be a challenge for GCV to tap that fund to even get back the initial club dues.

The board, namely this writer, visited this idea back in 2016 and unless Ms. Brown changed or amended this Bill drastically its worthless to us. We'd be paying out a grand or two in hopefully getting some portion of $1.5MM divided among potentially 1600 takers. If you do the math it becomes ridiculous. In essence #1712 is another wasted effort by our leaders in Harrisburg. Furthermore if this is still listed as a 'Bill', then it may not be law yet.

This issue was discussed at the Radnor Board of Commissioners last night, who voted to approve a study of downstream effects of the dam breach. See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClYQ89GwyUA&feature=player_embedded
BOC discussion at 3:18:12, decision at 3:30:50 (passes!)
Public comments 8:00-9:47

Some details about Pennsylvania's Private Dam Financial Assurance Program, which took effect in January, are also posted on the Community Associations Institute website. Go to:

https://www.cai-padelval.org/private-dam-financial-assurance-program-takes-effect/

The information posted on the site includes the new program's enrollment guidelines and loan application guidelines. FYI.

A few comments from me-- I grew up on Saw Mill Road in the 1960s. The whole tract of "Greene Country Village" was built starting about 1971, and our family fled the construction. Before that, "Earle's Woods" as we called it, was a huge piece of land between Saw Mill Road on the one side and Earle's Lane on the other, and Rte 252 at the other side, and Darby-Paoli Road in the other. Where all the Greene Country Village houses are now was pine forest, filled with paths and the ruins of a half-dozen 19th and 18th century stone houses. It was paradise for a child to play in. Governor Earle's ruined mansion stood on a curve on Malin Road, (which did not exist then) just before the big big hill that leads up to the intersection with Bryn Mawr Ave. The mansion burned in the 40s, I think, but it stood there, a big haunted house, inviting all of us kids in. There were brown trout in Darby Creek which my sister and I caught with our lines. And Earle's Lake was not surrounded by any fence, and there was no sewage plant there. It was a pristine lake, likewise filled with fish. There was an historical marker by the dam that was taken away at some point-- I don't know by whom? The whole place was like a fairy tale. There were two or three houses on Earle's Lane that had been there since before the Civil War. A path ran from what is now the entrance to Green Country etc on Saw Mill Road, all the way through the woods to a big tract that occupied the corner between 252 and Saw Mill Road. That's all houses now. But back then, it was a racetrack. You can even see it in old photos of Newtown Square-- the dirt track. It was primarily used to drive "sulkies"-- one and two person carriages pulled by racehorses. We would walk up there and watch the horses race by on the weekends.

Anyway, all these memories I have of a place that is now vanished. And vanishing still further, if the bastards drain Earle's Lake and stuff it full of more rackety-rackety houses. The swine. What will they do when then run out of green spaces to destroy?

--jennifer finney boylan.

Saturday, May 11th, 2019
Meeting at Radnor Township Hall.
Greene Country Village proposal for draining the lake and breaching the dam is NOT even considered for evaluation by the DEP or the US Army Corps of Engineers at this time as it is (very) incomplete.
You may have thought that Mr. Ritchey's permit requests were all that was necessary. Sorry for the bad news, the processed is as stalled as ever.
Radnor's contracted Carroll Engineering which thought also that the permit and narrative were lacking. Confirmed by the results of the study and as shared by Radnor to the DEP in a letter this past month.
Meanwhile the dam is in disrepair and residents at Greene Countrie Village may want to ask themselves, what are they paying Mr. Ritchey for?
What would happen if storms after storms threaten the integrity of the dam? What if the residents downstream have to be evacuated and their home rendered unhabitable?
This issue has been outstanding since 2011. GCV voted repetitively to breach the dam.
Now it is time to move forward, and collaborate on this. Stone walling by GCV management has only brought it where it is today: in risk of being fined for not taking action, held liable should the dam fail on top of emergency costly repairs.
Nadine

Sorry it is Ditchey not Ritchey

I remember at a GCV meeting, Mr. Ditchey boasted that he "had connections in Harrisburg" that could move the process forward for getting the permit approved. Ha!

On June 6 in the Radnor Township Building, concerned residents met with Larry Healy, representing State Representative Jennifer O'Mara, Steve Norcini (Radnor Township Engineer), Lisa Borowski (Radnor Township Commissioner, 4th Ward ). The purpose of the meeting was to inform Representative O'Mara's office of the state of the Earles Lake Dam, and to ask them to intercede with the PADEP to push for a resolution to the situation regarding the dam. DEP inspections indicate that since 2011 the PADEP has been aware of the poor state of the dam, to the extent the it threatens the lives and property of residents downstream. Radnor Township has no enforcement authority regarding the needed maintenance and repairs to the dam, that falls to the PADEP, who until recently have been unresponsive to the township. The township can only respond to plans submitted to the PADEP during the comment period, as they did with the recently submitted plan for the dam breach that was returned as 'administratively incomplete'.
Residents expressed concern with the situation. A document obtained through a FOI request showed that in 2011, the DEP required that GCV post a bond in the amount of $30,000 as proof of financial responsibility by January 8, 2016. It is not known if this bond has been posted. Other documents from 2011 from the DEP to the GCV state clearly that the dam is in poor condition, and must be repaired or removed.
Whatever the ultimate fate of the dam (repair or breach), the current state of the dam is unacceptable, and GCV needs to submit a reasonable plan in a timely manner, as well as maintain the dam properly until a final solution is reached. Mr. Healy gave assurances that Representative O'Mara's office would contact the DEP.

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=rep.%20jennifer%20o%27mara&epa=SEARCH_BOX

Our state representative Jen O'Mara visited Earles Lake dam - see link above for her facebook posting

^^^ Sorry I don't understand what the point of this is. It looks like some kind of PR stunt?

GoodNeighbor - Representative O'Mara and her staff have been working to bring this to the attention of the DEP, and resolve the situation - let's give her a chance!

My understanding is that the DEP and Army Corps of Engineers already know about this and have been working directly with GCV board to resolve this for the past 8+ years...

DEP and ACE are aware of the situation, but the DEP has not pushed hard enough for a resolution, hence the involvement of our elected officials. 8+ years is too long, and neglect of the dam has created a very dangerous situation for downstream residents. The storm last night, and the previous one in July showed this clearly.

At an Aug. 1, 2019, meeting for Greene Countrie Village condo owners, attendees were told by the GCV board of directors that the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (the DEP) continues to review GCV's application to 1) breach the dam, 2) drain Earle's Lake and 3) restore the original stream channel. This is the plan that the GCV condo owners approved several years ago. GCV condo owners were told at the Aug. 1 meeting that the DEP has asked for more details in several areas, including the estimated amount of silt at the bottom of the lake that would have to be removed and relocated. In addition, the relocation of two species of turtles must be accomplished before the draining can proceed, according to state and federal regulations.

At the same meeting for GCV condo owners, the board of directors informed attendees that it is awaiting a declaratory judgement regarding the liability of two adjacent condo communities, operating together as the Village of Earle's Lake Homeowners Association, to pay 30 percent of the cost of removing the dam, draining Earle's Lake, and restoring the original stream channel. The Village of Earle's Lake Homeowners Association is legally obligated to pay a 30 percent share of the costs associated with the maintenance and repair of Earle's Lake and its dam; that is spelled out clearly in the Village of Earle's Lake declaration documents filed at the Delaware County Courthouse. However, that association has decided to argue in court that "removing the dam and draining the lake" do NOT constitute "maintenance and repair." The matter is before a judge at this time.

For the record, the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection's ordered Greene Countrie Village, which owns Earle's Lake in Newtown Township, either to 1) breach the dam, drain the lake and restore the stream channel, or 2) rebuild the dam so it meets current state and federal standards dates to September 2011.

More recently, on Aug. 12, 2019, the Radnor Township Board of Commissioners, talked again about the situation involving Earle's Lake. (A sliver of Earle's Lake is in Radnor Township, including two private residences that sit on the lake. One of those residences has property rights that extend into the lake.) Radnor Township administrators have already said in public meetings that they oppose the plan to breach the dam and drain Earle's Lake, saying that the lake is an integral part of stormwater management for both Radnor and Newtown Townships. The line separating the townships is at the north end of Earle's Lake, near the intersection of Earle's Lane and Malin Road.

Thanks for the update, Watchdog! A couple of questions -
1) is the application the one prepared by Ditchey, or Leggett Brashears and Graham? Public information indicates that the Ditchey Proposal was rejected as 'administratively incomplete', while the LBG proposal from 2014 became inactive when GCV did not respond to requests for further information from the DEP. As far as the public record exists, there is no official proposal in front of the DEP.
2) Did you attend the August 12 meeting? Radnor Township administrators and other elected officials have expressed a great deal of concern regarding the impact of the dam removal on Radnor residents downstream, but I am not aware of public statements to the effect that they are absolutely against dam removal (although there are residents who feel that way). They are very concerned about stormwater management, particularly given the disastrous results of removing the much smaller Summit Hill dam downstream.

The breach plan submitted by Greene Countrie Village to the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection at the end of 2018 is the plan prepared by Eric Ditchey, an engineer who is under contract with GCV. GCV condo owners have not been told by the GCV board of directors that the plan has been deemed "administratively incomplete"; rather, GCV condo owners were told by the board on Aug. 1, 2019, that the Pa. DEP, after reviewing the breach plan, has asked for additional information from the GCV board.

Worth noting is that Radnor Township's township engineer, Steve Norcini, has said in public meetings that GCV's plan to breach the dam and drain Earle's Lake has been deemed to be "administratively incomplete" and "woefully inadequate." Mr. Norcini also has cited a study done by Carroll Engineering, which Radnor Township hired to project the downstream effects that likely would result from breaching the dam and draining of the lake. The "HEC-RAS" analysis that was done, Mr. Norcini has said, shows that breaching the dam and draining the lake will have significant negative effects on property that is downstream from Earle's Lake.

I watched the Aug. 12, 2019, meeting of the Radnor board of commissioners live on Radnor TV (Verizon Channel 30). Video of the meeting is posted on Radnor's Facebook page at the following link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY5HxYm9T04

Start at 36:53 to see compelling video of flood water charging toward a home on Earle's Lane, just north of Earle's Lake. The flooding took place last week, during the Aug. 7, 2019, storm.

Thanks Watchdog again, discussion of the dam continues at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY5HxYm9T04
1:09:49 - 1:21:49
Lots of complaints about the DEP and GCV.
Very interesting. If the GCV Board did not tell the condo owners that the plan was rejected, they were clearly misleading the residents.

Thank you to all that are posting and keeping this topic up to date.

The video of the flooding of the property on Earles Lane shown to the Radnor Commissioners was astonishing! The flooding was the result of the breach of the smaller dam on Earles Lane. I can't imagine the devastation Earles Lake Dam removal would cause. Surely, there must be a common sense approach to resolve this! The owner of the property Earles Lake be pumped down 8 inches and it would make a difference. Has any option been explored on GCV side?

Where would the documentation be located for the GCV property owners to review about the communications between GCV and the DEP regarding the dam and lake? I am looking for the original notice from DEP and subsequent communications. Perhaps in these one can determine what has been tried and what may have been overlooked.

Is there anyone representing GCV homeowners that is communicating with Radnor Township and attending the Radnor Township Board meetings?

Lastly, has there been a change in the local storm sewers that caused the GCV pool to flood during the two recent heavy rain storms? American Pool had to drain, clean and refill the pool both times. Any ideas on what this will cost the association and if there will be a special assessment for this?

Thank you for any responses you may have.

Regarding some points in the previous post:

---Documentation and correspondence about Earle's Lake dam between dam/lake owner Greene Countrie Village of Newtown Square, Pa., and the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection is recorded as DEP File No. D23-036. The file is a public record, and should be available to anyone who requests access to it. (Note: Be prepared to travel to the DEP's headquarters in Harrisburg or, perhaps, to the southeast Pa. office in Norristown.)

---The notice from the Pa. DEP to Greene Countrie Village either to 1) rebuild Earle's Lake dam to meet current standards, or 2) breach the dam, drain the lake and restore the stream channel was issued Sept. 20, 2011. The notice was written by Roger P. Adams, Chief, Division of Dam Safety. The notice advises Greene Countrie Village management to follow up with Richard Reisinger at (717) 772-5957 or Vince Humenay at (814) 342-8146.

---No one is formally representing the Greene Countrie Village condo owners at meetings of the Radnor Township Board of Commissioners. Likewise, no one is formally representing the GCV condo owners at meetings of the Newtown Township Board of Commissioners. Earle's Lake and the dam are located primarily in Newtown Township, the home of Greene Countrie Village. A sliver of the lake reaches into Radnor Township, and the service road used to access the dam for inspection and repairs is in Radnor Township.

---The damage to the pool at Greene Countrie Village on two recent occasions (in July and August 2019) was caused by Newtown Township's storm drains and pipes along Earle's Lane, where GCV is located. The township's drainage system runs along Earle's Lane and then through a township-owned concrete collector box that is on GCV property, about 20 feet from the gated entrance to the pool. Stormwater from Earle's Lane is sent to the collector box, where it is then sent through an outlet pipe that empties into Earle's Lake. The rain and runoff from both of the recent storms that damaged the pool at GCV overwhelmed the concrete collector box because the outlet pipe could not handle all of the water. The resulting back pressure lifted the very heavy top of the concrete collector box, allowing stormwater and debris from Earle's Lane to flow directly into the pool. Both events resulted in the pool being closed for six days for draining, cleaning, repairs, refilling and chemical treatment. There has been no notice as of today (Aug. 14, 2019) as to whether GCV condo owners will have to pay a special assessment for this work. Also, as of today, GCV condo owners have not been told whether Newtown Township will service the outlet pipe to ensure it is not clogged and is in proper working condition.

One observation: The boards of commissioners, the township managers and the environmental advisory councils in both Newtown Township and Radnor Township are well aware that the Earle's Lake dam was deemed "unsafe" in September 2011 by the Pa. Department of Environmental Protection. Today, eight years later, the townships are not talking with each other about the issue -- at least not in public meetings.

Please ask the administrator to re-open this thread. Thank you.

Fix it or Break it, but do it right

Thank you Nadine for reopening the thread. Is there any way to make the most recent post be at the top?

WORTH NOTING: At least one property owner in Radnor Township, adjacent to Newtown Township, has urged the Radnor Board of Commissioners to take legal action against against the Greene Countrie Village Homeowners Association, which owns Earle's Lake and its dam in Newtown Township.

Such legal action would be based on the assertion that the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection has called on GCV to lower the water level of the lake by at least 18 inches. Although GCV in recent years has taken modest steps to lower the lake's water level by way of a small pump, subsequent rainfall and storm runoff from Earle's Lane quickly brought the lake level back to the top of the dam. It remains at that level today.

Greene Countrie Village was built in 1971-72 as Fountain Square of Newtown Square, a luxury apartment community in Newtown Township. The property was converted to condominiums in 1976. Today, it is managed by First Service Residential, which bills itself as "North America's largest manager of residential communities." FSR's parent company is based in Toronto, Canada, and the FSR headquarters is located at 1855 Griffin Road, Suite A-330, Dania Beach, FL 33004. For details, call: (954) 926-2921. Online: https://www.fsresidential.com/corporate.

I don’t understand your point or how you feel this information will help GCV?

Why does any down-stream (Radnor) neighbor, or GCV resident, want to maintain and preserve an environmental anomaly and life/property threatening concrete obstruction (dam)???? How can a child drown in a lake that doesn't exist? How can a dam fail, if it is removed and the stream bed returned to its natural state? How can it be more expensive in the long run to remove a failing, unnecessary, dangerous, unnatural stream obstruction, than it would be to fix and maintain the dam in perpetuity? Dams are not good for the environment, not good for property values, not good for native species in the stream ecology, not good for protecting property or life...unless the dam obstruction provides a significant intentional benefit to downstream lands (or for power generation, necessary reservoir, flood mitigation, or recreational activities...)

Earle was a man who destroyed nature for a personal "aesthetic benefit". Now, a small cadre of residents believe that it is better to maintain the unnatural disturbance and degradation of the environment and ecology of the Saw Mill Run and Darby Creek...because they like the idea that a chain link fence surrounding an unusable mosquito breeding area can possibly fill up with enough water to breach a failing man made obstruction and cause a catastrophic flood that destroys property and imperils children and family downstream.

I hope that one day soon you all wake up and work together to remove the dam, restore the stream, increase safety, and rehabilitate the stream and surrounding area.

Nah, lets keep a crappy dangerous mosquito pond that could possibly cause a big old flood.
That is the smart idea with the most traction held by the majority of local residents?

https://www.americanrivers.org/

https://assets.aspeninstitute.org/content/uploads/files/content/docs/ee/damremovaloption.pdf

http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/archive/NotesDocs/25-25(14)_FR.pdf

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2016/1/7/the-quiet-controversy-of-dam-removal.html

Why are you blocking content? what are you afraid of?

Why are you keeping a failing obstruction that can only perpetuate ecological degradation and imperil life and property? Who exactly wants to keep this mosquito pond?

"Fix it or Break it, but do it right" -- this is largely my position as well. Personally I would defer to the expert opinions of experienced engineers when it comes to costs, potential issues, etc. I've never been personally involved in this kind of work and I'm sure most of the people in this thread haven't either.

http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/archive/NotesDocs/25-25(14)_FR.pdf

https://assets.aspeninstitute.org/content/uploads/files/content/docs/ee/damremovaloption.pdf

https://www.americanrivers.org/

Yeah, what if you're right. What if, as some of your own sources suggest, there are unintended consequences of taking down a dam that may well be more adverse that beneficial? I mean, why, that's the fundamental question here. Why not just plow forward on a project that has been cloaked in secrecy, where local township government hasn't been given all the details? Why not just remove the dam even though GCV has dragged its feet for 7 years and along the way provided a limited and incomplete set of facts? Why not just move forward even though dam removal will irrevocably harm the property of an adjacent neighbor, one who may well have property rights to the lake, as well? Right? And who cares if the dam removal could cause ecologic detriment to downstream neighbors? Who cares if it's a natural habitat for animal wildlife? Amarite? Like, we won't all be here on earth in 20-odd years or so, so consequences be damned. Let's all speak from a position of authority when the the "authorities" have been less than honest from the jump and continue to exhibit less than ethical behavior?

But why? Why care? Why should we care that the short- and long-term economic impact of saving the dam may be less than removal? Why should we care that the potential benefit on the environment from keeping the dam outweighs the potential detriment from removal? Why should we care that the lake could be an asset to the community, increasing property values while serving as a necessary barrier against water spillage?

Maybe the answer to "why" is because what to do with the dam is not a transactional calculus. Maybe there are larger concerns to consider beyond the dollars and cents. And maybe, ultimately, the answer to "why" is because there has never been open and honest dialogue about the dam. Instead, one party has and continues to act in its own interest without considering or even talking about how the dam removal could impact those beyond its real estate borders.

Let me guess @cost-benefit - you are on the board at Greene Countrie?? We do not need your snide comments on here such as "lets keep a crappy dangerous mosquito pond that could possibly cause a big old flood.
That is the smart idea with the most traction held by the majority of local residents?"

@taxpayer that cares -- I don't see value in flaming GCV or its board either. GCV board has had problems in the past, but the current board has been invigorated with new members and I think is in a much better position now than it was years ago. Regardless, having followed this issue for the past 5-6 years, I'm generally of the position that while the land is clearly a huge asset, the lake is mostly a liability. I think 99% of the reasons for keeping it are either aesthetic or related to property value concerns. The aesthetic stuff comes down to individual/personal taste. Personally, as someone who has a big appreciation for natural aesthetic, I think the lake is a bit of an eyesore. As for potential issues, the only people who can properly speak to and address that are professional experts (engineers, etc.) who are experienced in this kind of work.

@goodneighbor that is all well and good regarding GCV, but the only thing GCV cares about is money because they are constantly in financial straits. I'm not saying I blame the people that live there, I am aware it is constant assessments with fees going up and up, but they are only going to do what is the least expensive and the "easiest". The only reason the lake is an eyesore is because it is not maintained at all. It could be beautiful I am sure. I do know for a fact that is home to a lot of wildlife including bald eagles. I do agree that the only people who can speak to and address the potential issues are professional experts but most of these "experts" ie engineers, have a vested interest. Hopefully there will be a resolution that is in the best interest of the community and the environment.

All I am reading from all of this is that there are a lot of unknowns and potential liabilities from draining the lake. Can we quantify all of the potential lawsuits, and the liability for repairing any downstream effects? I have now heard about multiple neighboring properties who plan to sue if the dam is breached. I know that the cost of re-homing the wildlife was considered when doing the cost comparison but what about legal costs? To me it is a huge unknown, and at least we know how much it would cost to repair it. It has been 7 years since the decision was made, shouldn't we consider revisiting it?

@taxpayer that cares -- I don't see how vague accusations of GCV or otherwise are helpful here. "most of these "experts" ie engineers, have a vested interest" -- can you please explain what this means? Can you explain what your interest in this issue is? I.e., are you a GCV homeowner or someone whose home is adjacent to the lake?
@JD -- as for potential lawsuits, the reality is nearly anyone can sue for nearly anything. That of course doesn't mean they will be successful.

@interestedobserver has it right, the lack of open and honest dialogue has made a difficult situation much worse - if there is any doubt simply reread Ashley Wilson's post from 2/19/2018, or look back at the aborted scheme to sell land freed up by draining the lake to developers.

As to lawsuits, due in part to neglected maintenance of the dam, residences downstream are directly threatened by extreme runoff following large storms. This has been documented, and was recently presented publicly at a Radnor Board of Commissioners meeting.

So how do we move forward regarding the interests of the community affected by decisions regarding the dam, when there is no dialogue with the party that owns the dam? Currently GCV neighbors are working with their elected representatives ensure that the PADEP, the governmental agency with jurisdiction in this matter, properly consider the downstream effects of dam removal or dam repair. Whatever is done, it must be done right. If it is, there will be no negligence, and no basis for lawsuits. If things are not done properly (and they will be checked!), that is another story.

If anything, the situation is better because that ridiculous proposed deal fell through. And the GCV board has been invigorated with several new members and is more active than before. I think that a handful of people are making it out to be worse by trolling and/or imagining all sorts of potential nightmare scenarios. The likelihood of which I'm confident no one in this thread is qualified to answer. I don't understand why anyone is doing that because it doesn't seem productive.

I’m sickened by the complete lack of consideration given to the actual residents of the Earle’s Lake community. Greene Country Village was definitely in a bind but it’s truly a shame that they didn’t embark on a broader process in weighing the options...including private grants and conservation funds. There are so numerous philanthropic groups that could have stepped up with what is really a modest investment for properly fortifying the integrity of the dam Perhaps a highly public protest is in order. At this point its all about cranking up the volume so someone in a position to counter the investment commitment is made aware.

If there are lawsuits, the money spent on lawyers will be a spiteful waste, in place of directing resources toward meaningful environmental remediation. If there are lawsuits, the end loser and biggest giver will be the adjacent downstream neighbors and the adjoining, nearly irrelevant, Township taxpayers who have already spilled $25K and will likely dump thousands more into the shallow, hot waters of the mosquito infested environmental disaster that is Earles Lake.

Not to be a Nostra-dam-us, but the dam in question WILL certainly be destroyed by either Nature, or a fleet of large diesel equipment...but, rest assured, it will one day cease to be. Dams are unnatural, disruptive, dangerous, unnecessary (in this case), degrading to the environment, pollution traps that imperil life and property when they fail. (Sounds like something I want to keep in my backyard, upstream from my house!)

You want the Dam? Go try and build one on your own stretch of stream, or in your own back-yard. You won't be able to, because regulations are so strict and specific, that USACE, PADEP and local government will ring you dry before you dig a hole and pour concrete.

No clever person ever said, "Oh, I know what would make my property value increase heftily, make my family and pets safer, create a pleasing peaceful aesthetic backwater breeding ground for mosquitoes, hinder free movement of aquatic wildlife, trap polluted sediments, create a flooding hazard, and cost lots of money to perpetually maintain...Let's build a crumbly dam and spill-way on this stream here! Oh, and I think we should surround it with a 8' tall cylcone fence because we don't want anyone to use the shallow, tepid water, because this pond is merely for aesthetically challenged persons to enjoy seasonally and occasionally."

Or, all of the 6 opponents could get smart, communicate with GCV Board and Community, and work out a solution that creates a long lasting benefit for the surrounding properties and communities in both Townships.

Want to spend your money on lawsuits? (The Most American of Investments ~ 'Lawsuits') How about you try changing the world that is crumbling at your property line and spend some of that green paper on affecting a better environment, a safer, more natural condition for your family, your neighbors, and your community. Why not try to make a bright ecological future for your children and grandchildren? ("Personally, I don't think the future could be any better than a 100 year old -pollution lake created by a failing dangerous dam, directly next to my house", said no one ever.)

Continue to stick your heels, ankles and calves into the pollution sediments that are trapped behind the dam crest. Continue to bemoan the "lack of communication" and terrible planning and negligent maintenance of the GVC Board and management. Real people who want real change don't hide behind forums like this to complain in anonymity about degraded conditions that only 6 people want to preserve. Real people talk with mouths, in front of other peoples faces, and use words that are sculpted into sentences inside the wondrous bio-computers between their ears, that are incidentally used to listen to the responses flowing from the lips of the real people they are communicating with.

Try a little direct communication. It's usually the only way (other than Litigation) that business gets done on Earth. Communication is free and helps build community and connects neighbors to common concerns and like-minded solutions.

Or, just talk to your lawyer, who will tell you to not say anything to anyone...which will likely precipitate a costly status quo of scorn, divisiveness, inaction.

Ultimately it is your choice; but either way, that unnatural dam isn't long for the natural world, and that should concern each of the obstructionist neighbors quite a bit.

Whether or not we agree with them, the neighbors believe the lake and the dam should stay. They have tried to communicate with previous boards in the past as you have suggested, and that lead nowhere. Perhaps the new board is more open as others have suggested, so maybe they will reach out to the neighbors again? Whether or not they will win a lawsuit is not the point. They are coming from a wealthy township and people from those areas always sue with expensive lawyers. Lawsuits cost a lot of money whether you win or not. Is it all worth it? Maybe the new board can explore some of the options Ben suggested, and instead of paying all this money, and having all of this liability, have someone else help pay for all of this and keep the neighbors happy as well.

There’s nothing wrong with spirited debate on a topic that people feel strongly about...regardless as to which side of the issue they fall. No one is arguing in favor of keeping a dam that’s in desperate need of repairs. The real question is whether to fix it properly with the proper funding...or to remove it. I just think an open, transparent process that weighs the pros and cons of either option is the appropriate way to handle an important decision like this.

https://z0ku333mvy924cayk1kta4r1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/38-1-5.pdf
"The removal of obsolete,
deteriorating dams has the power to
transform a local stream ecosystem. It
converts an often-forgotten section of
stream that is degraded from decades
of impoundment into a healthy, thriving
stream system. Removing dams allows
the ecosystem to recover, restoring
free-flowing conditions and the natural
stream structure, clearing out accumulated
sediment, and connecting stream
systems to allow for diverse recreational
opportunities. The stream once again
becomes wild and free, as if the dam had
never been there in the first place. "

https://glenprovidencepark.org/2012/05/06/what-does-dam-removal-look-like/

https://www.epa.gov/pa/stream-restoration-project-shows-benefits-removing-legacy-sediments

http://paenvironmentdaily.blogspot.com/2018/03/bay-journal-removing-legacy-sediment.html

http://files.dep.state.pa.us/PublicParticipation/Advisory%20Committees/AdvCommPortalFiles/AAB/2014/April2014/Legacy_Sediment_Presentations_2014_Ag%20Advisory%20Board.pdf

https://landstudies.com/legacy-sediment-impacts-streams-floodplains/

"This paper uses hedonic analysis to examine the impact of small dam removal on property values
in South-central Wiscosin. Data on residential property sales were obtained for three categories
of sites: those where a dam is intact, those where a dam was recently removed, and those where
the stream has been free-flowing for at least 20 years. The primary conclusions that emerge from
the data are that residential property located in the vicinity of a free-flowing stream is more
valuable than identical property in the vicinity of a small impoundment, and that shoreline
frontage along small impoundments confers no increase in residential property value compared
to frontage along free-flowing streams."
file:///C:/Users/rbinn/Downloads/stpap501.pdf

https://ideas.repec.org/p/ags/wisagr/10280.html

Does Small Dam Removal Affect Local Property Values? An Empirical Analysis - Bill Provencher, Helen Sarakinos and Tanya Meyer 2006

(download is unrestricted ~ stpap501.pdf ~ link above

After the storms last month, the spillway suffered extensive damage - see these pics:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1o33qnLb2s05fJjNzmERKGnNjDps4M3FN
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MZJWNBSxkCI6yJgzjB9T3laI1dZ7_toL
The second pic shows that not even the embedded rebar kept the concrete slab in place. Whatever happens eventually, the dam's condition should not be neglected to the extent that it is collapsing!

Cost~Benefit?, you raise valid and important points regarding the dam. Consider however that most of the dam removal in Pennsylvania has been in relatively undeveloped areas, which is certainly not the case with Earles Lake Dam. Since the dam was built, the construction of over 250 housing units at GCV and Water's Edge completely distorts and concentrates the drainage into Sawmill Creek. Note also that what was proposed to DEP was a V-cut through the dam, leaving most of it in place, as well as the spillway which no longer have any purpose, but would still funnel stormwater downstream in an unnatural manner. The streambed will not be restored to anything like its original 'wild and free' state, because that is impossible.

The dam will be removed, that seems certain. That removal will be overseen by the PADEP and the Army Corps of Engineers. So long as the work is in compliance with that oversight and all attendant regulations, GCV residents have nothing to fear from lawsuits from the 'obstructionist' downstream neighbors (who actually have done nothing to obstruct anything, they have only asked that the possibility of keeping the dam be considered, and that if the dam is removed that it be done properly, and that GCV perform required ongoing maintenance).

Pictures of extensive damage to the spillway following the August 8 storms, showing exposed rebar that did not prevent the concrete slab from being lifted and pushed into the spillway.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MZJWNBSxkCI6yJgzjB9T3laI1dZ7_toL
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1o33qnLb2s05fJjNzmERKGnNjDps4M3FN

What’s the best way to find out the most recent status (on the dam) from the township’s perspective? I’m happy to help investigate potential grant and/or private funding options

Earle's Lake dam is on the agenda for the June 1, 2020, meeting of the Newtown Township Municipal Authority. It is listed as No. 6 under the township Engineer's Report.

The meeting will be held remotely because of ongoing coronavirus concerns. It is scheduled to start at 7 p.m.

To send a comment via email in advance of the meeting, send it to publiccomment@newtowntownship.org. Your comment will be read into the record as long as you include your name and address.

Instructions for watching the virtual meeting on Zoom -- and for listening to the meeting by phone -- are posted with the agenda online at this address:

https://newtowntownship.civicweb.net/Portal/MeetingInformation.aspx?Id=523

FYI.

Comments about the Earle's Lake project from two members of the public were included in the updated agenda for the June 1, 2020, meeting of the Newtown Township Municipal Authority. Links to those comments are included with the updated agenda posted on the township website. To read them, go to the following link:

https://newtowntownship.civicweb.net/Portal/MeetingInformation.aspx?Id=523

Are there any GCV residents out there that are upset about our maintenance fees being raised? They were raised again today because of the Dam. Does it really only cost 200k to fix the Dam? So why are we paying over 2 million for it? Why do GCV residents have to foot that bill?

Below is a link to the YouTube Video of the June 1 , 2020 Newtown Township meeting - GCV Earles Lake Dam is discussed.

Is the Board of GCV in communication with Newtown Township? The Township seems to have very limited information about the dam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIGFsv9zcg8&feature=emb_err_woyt

Thank you for the link. Do you know why GCV residents were not invited to this township meeting? I would have attended. I just found out about this website today.

I would expect that all information about the community, ongoing maintenance, future development, budgets, etc. would be made available to all homeowners by the Board. Most communities utilize a website to provide in depth information to homeowners and residents.

The posts found here on See Click Fix provide some insight.

Radnor Township has also been reviewing the Earles Lake dam.

Link to August 12,2019 Radnor Township meeting previously posted provided here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY5HxYm9T04

Minute 36 is video of flooding downstream and 1:09 -1:21 is commentary about the dam and GCV

This was a “municipal” board meeting that deals solely with sewage/sewer related issues associated with the dam vs “township” board that would deal with the dam itself. As a result, all public comments on the matter were deferred to the township board director. However, the municipal board did agree to attach the public comments they received to the “board agenda” so at least the letters of public opposition to the removal & drainage of the dam are now of public record. I’ll try to post the letters separately since they’re very heartfelt, rational and wonderfully articulated. Ultimately, the “township board” is the one who will be making the call on this. This sure seems Iike a hot potato issue that no one wants to tackle head-on....which is sad considering the magnitude of what’s at stake.

Here’s a link to the three public letters submitted during the June 1 municipal board meeting. You’ll have to enlarge a bit to read

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11Xa3Jlrt8ztOpIWcyEzv3-RdQ-KtjOQZ

Thank you for this information. I’m a homeowner at GCV. The GCV board does not notify any residents about these meeting by the township. They just raised our HOA fees due to the Dam. In the past 2 years our fees have been raised by over $400 a month due to the Dam. Are any other GCV home owners outraged about the HOA fee hikes?

@ben
I am unable to view the google drive folder link. Is there another way to view the three letters? I have seen two letters on the township site.
Thank you

Here's the text of the letter from the Heckmans, who have lived at at 1-and-1/2 Earle's Lane since 1967:

From:
To: Public Comment
Cc:
Subject: Breach of Earle’s Lake Dam and potential destruction of downstream public sewer pipe, Saw Mill Park culvert under Earle’s Lane and historic homes

Date: Sunday, May 31, 2020 8:04:06 PM

TOM and Mary Jo Heckman live at 1 1/2 Earle’s Lane Newtown Square.

We are the 4th House downstream from the Earle’s Lake Dam. Part of our home is the original stable that belonged to the miller,(hence the name Saw Mill Road and Run), who lived in the white farm house, # 1 Earle’s Lane. Both the stable and the home were built c. 1790. These historic properties are still standing and serve as residential homes today.

TOM Heckman’s family has lived at this site since 1967, and they have never had water in the houses. It was not deemed flood plain in 1967, and Greene Countrie Village and the new residential houses in the area had not yet been built. There were acres of ground for water drainage, and the Earle’s Lake Dam built in circa 1910 to control floodwater at Governor Earle’s downstream estate was doing it’s job.

We share the following long story with you regarding the dangerous events that occurred when the much smaller Summit Hill Dam was breached. This is an illustration of what will occur with the breach of the Earle’s Lake Dam, only in a much larger scale.

Summit Hill Dam was located downstream from Earle’s Lake Dam and 40 yards upstream from our home at 1 1/2 Earle’s Lane. This small dam served as a storm water retention basin for a 1 acre pond. The Earle’s Lake Dam functions the same way for a 5 acre pond.

Currently, all storm water from Green Countrie and surrounding homes pours into Earle’s Lake. We cannot help but believe that the events that transpired after the breach of the small Summit Hill Dam will be similar and the devastation will increase exponentially with significant damage to the eco system, movement if polluted down stream silt, possible rupture of the public sewer pipe, a complete loss of several residential historic homes and possible subsequent loss of life.

In 2017 the Dam Safety Division of the PA DEP mandated that the SUMMIT HILL DAM. be breached and one acre pond be drained. We received no notification from the DEP or Radnor Township about the dam breach. We were assured by both government agencies on the day they demolished the dam that there would be no impact on our home. That same day, the DEP, Radnor Township and the contractor on the job realized that a Public Sewer pipe runs across Saw Mill Run in an above ground sewer pipe. The contractor doing the work had to adjust the scope of his project and shore up the sewer pipe with concrete to further protect this active sewer pipe from downstream rushing water and debris.

Since the breach of the Summit Hill Dam we have lost more than 4 feet of stream bank between the creek and our house. We have had tons of sediment, rocks and debris settle in the small pond behind us.

The Dam Safety Division did come on site to review the problem in December 2018, and stated that our house was now ”threatened.” In July of 2019, during 2 heavy rainstorms 6 days apart, we almost lost our home. We had whitewater roaring down the hill with an engorged creek that was at least 25 to 30 feet in width......normal width is 4 feet. After the first storm the contractor we had engaged to move the creek back to its original streambed dropped tons of 1000 pound boulders against the back of our house until he was issued permits to start digging. The boulders protected our house from the second storm. This time we had even more water roaring down the hill, careening off the sewer pipe, which is now a 40 inch drop and accelerates the rate or speed of the water. It crested the boulders protecting our house and engulphed one corner of the foundation of our home. It took out our bridge, severely damaged our neighbors bridge, swept away and dislodged the rocks that were in place to protect the public sewer pipe and undermined and went over and around the 4 foot culvert under Earle’s Lane. The body of water in the road at that point was 40 inches deep and about 30 feet wide.

We suspect if the Earles Lake Dam is breached, this culvert and the road will collapse in future storms.

We will try to forward video of this storm.

In summary, how will Greene Countrie, Newtown and Radnor Townships and The PA DEP compensate downstream neighbors, if due to the Earles Lake Dam breach the public sewer pipe is ruptured, the culvert at Saw Mill Road collapses, our homes are flooded and damaged? Are you prepared to buy our houses at replacement value under laws of eminent domain? Why not fix the dam which does serve as a storm water retention basin?

We have done our part to move Saw Mill Run back to its original creek bed, create a channel for the creek, shored up the banks if the creek and stabilized the boulders at the public sewer pipe. We have done this at our own expense. It is less expensive to fix the problem than to get involved in litigation. If we all work together and contribute financially we will have a safe dam that helps control the storm water and a healthy eco system for all residents to enjoy.

Respectfully submitted,
Tom and Mary Jo Heckman
1 1/2 Earle’s Lane Newtown Square.