Description
When will the city actually do something to correct this problem?!? It's not right that we should have to be concerned about children playing in a park because there might be needles. Also, it is not the responsibility of the person who finds the needle to dispose of it properly. No one is paying us, we aren't covered if we catch somethign from it. This is disgusting and I am sick of finding needles!! keep it clean!
60 Comments
Peg (Registered User)
here (Guest)
Disgusted (Guest)
Maybe crack down harder on drug dealers and drug addicts... Have police monitor/patrol areas known to be bad for this... Stop giving out needles, or make sure that any needle given out is disposed of at the same place it was given.
Tired of nothing getting done (Guest)
Mr Hermiteowitch (Guest)
Agnostic333 (Registered User)
Well Peg, there are several viable solutions:
1. Quit catering to these CRIMINAL drug addicts and stop the needle exchange.
2. Ban the CRIMINALS from the city, the reserves can do it, why cant we?
3. When these CRIMINALS get out of jail, give them a one way ticket out of PA.
These are my suggestions, flame on
Joe (Guest)
SooperNoob (Guest)
We can start to help addicts by stopping the handout of needles that they are using to kill themselves.
And no, not picking up needles is nowhere near as irresponsible as dropping it there. It is also not as irresponsible as giving it to an addict in the first place.
Disgusted (Guest)
Seeing a neddle and not picking it up does not make you as irresponsible as the person who left it there. Far from it! Just because you see the needle they used and refuse to pick it up for your own safety/ health/ well being does not make you an irresponsible person!
"Irresponsible"... would be the addicts littering the city with their disgusting needles.
"Irresponsible" would also be the city/ law enforcement's failure to correct this issue. (even an attempt to fix this would be nice)
CitizenY (Guest)
CitizenY (Guest)
MAR (Guest)
Wanting to help (Guest)
http://supervisedinjection.vch.ca/research/supporting_research/
Peg (Registered User)
Hmm... If we gave them the needles then disposed of them ourselves, that would keep the stuff off the streets, wouldn't it? Mind you, if we could fill the needles with some sort of artificial, non-addictive medicines, rather than coke, maybe it would help people get off the stuff and the safe site wouldn't be considered a drug dealer? I wonder if that'll fly? I wonder if there is such a drug as we need? To be honest, I'm not sure I like the idea of catering to an illegal drug addiction, but if that's what it takes to get things sorted out for the rest of the city...
It's not so much that I feel sorry for drug addicts. I'm afraid I don't very much, but I can appreciate how they'd manage to get themselves into this situation. Finding solutions to the social problems that predate drug addiction wouldn't hurt any, either, but that's a bit more than we can chew right now. That'll take more money than the city or provincial governments have free access to, I think. We have a gazillion dollars available for sports and entertainment facilities that only a few can afford to use on a regular basis, but we don't have enough money to deal with the social issues that are bringing this city into the gutter. It's scary, that kind of mindset. "He who has the gold makes the rules." I guess.
TJ (Registered User)
yes (Guest)
Kay (Guest)
dlf2007 (Guest)
Joe Blow (Guest)
SooperNoob (Guest)
Let's end this silliness of free needles and safe injection sites. I'm going to throw out a profound idea here.
If you had nothing to do with getting someone addicted to illegal narcotics, then you have no moral obligation to see to it that they continue in that decisions without harm.
In fact, offering free detox, rehab, health care for ailments related to that lifestyle, and addiction services is probably sufficient. That is on top of the other social services available to people who are poor and disadvantaged for reasons that do not involve using illegal narcotics. The taxpayer is doing a lot of heavy lifting before you bring in free services to continue in your addiction. And by free I mean that you are paying for it.
They say that you need to reach rock bottom before you can achieve clarity and motivation to get sober and bring meaningful change to the life you made for yourself. These harm reduction people want to ensure that you can continue to kill yourself so slowly that you never reach that.
KK (Guest)
I have to agree with TJ - Really, the addiction workers are just enabling, but are in denial. It is providing drug addicts with a tool to help them avoid the consequences of using - that is an ENABLER.
I think those working at the needle exchange should have to go pick up all of the dirty needles. :) Problem solved?
And insite is just another form of enabling, by the way.
Kevin Donohue (Registered User)
Hello everyone,
Thank you for all of your comments to this issue. This is clearly an important issue to your community, and a difficult one to address. This is definitely the type of subject that we want individual citizens to express their viewpoints on, so we're glad you're making use of SeeClickFix.
With that said, please keep your comments focused on the issue at hand. Comments that are abusive or attack other users violate our terms of service, and will be removed from the site.
We hope that you continue to use SeeClickFix for constructive dialogue around issue like this one. Please let me know if you have any questions regarding this or any other matter related to SeeClickFix
Regards,
Kevin
Community Manager
SeeClickFix
1st Nations guy (Guest)
Governments do what they can to help. Good or bad we put them there. Maybe ask them to look at doctors who give out addictive precriptions. Limit in what they can give.
There are so many ways to look at this issue. Thought lets make a group That will find solutions and not be part of the problem. Do you want your brother, sister, mom or dad or any other realitive/friend to be banded from their home. I don't think so.
Thank you for listening to my comments.
Trisha (Guest)
concerned (Guest)
Ick (Guest)
I don't think feeding the addiction is the solution and I don't necessarily agree with 'safe zones' or needle exchanges, but the people in charge of such programs should take into consideration what these "junkies" are doing with their needles afterwards.
WE DESERVE A CLEAN CITY!!!!
Peg (Registered User)
No moral obligation, SooperNoob? Am I my brother's keeper?
Thing is, a lot of the addicts are Native. They come from poverty-stricken reserves where the government has failed them by not honouring the treaties with more than lip service, if with that much. By example, they are taught that they don't matter, that they are nothing in the Grand Scheme of Things. So they turn to substance abuse to try to make themselves feel better about themselves. They try to break free of that by coming to PA for, hopefully, a better life, but they don't always find it. Addictions are worse than bad habits and just as hard to break.
Since there are very few places you can go to get help to break free of the mindset, and since the 'General Populace' isn't interested in your problems, you only dig yourself in deeper. *That's* the cycle that needs to be broken. A safe site to do your drugs means that, maybe, there's someone there who might care if you overdose. It means that there's help available if you want to quit. It means, bottom line, that someone cares about you for being you, and not for being a 'paying customer'. That means a lot to some people. It might mean the difference between an overdose to kill the pain and a chance at redemption. Are we that mean-spirited a city that we would deny someone this option?
MAR (Guest)
disgusted (Guest)
I don't believe it the responsibility of the innocent public to have to clean up after this issue. The health and safety risks are just not worth the risk innocent public would be taking. Maybe, an experienced group/organization should be hired/formed to contain/control/clean this.
Maybe if this issue was fixed, the City would be one step closer to being an enjoyable place to live. More people would want to live here rather than move to a different city. PA would start to shed some of the bad reputation it has with people from other cities.
disgusted (Guest)
This isn't about the drug addicts, this is about the littering of their tools throughout the city. Also, I believe that no assumptions should be made as to the race of the addicts and yes these addicts may come from bad backgrounds but not everyone with a bad background becomes an addict, you are given choices in life.... and for those who chose to become addicts there is counseling, rehab and programs divoted to help them. A city should not have to pay the price for someone elses bad choices.
SooperNoob (Guest)
@Peg: You are kind of getting off topic, so I'll be brief. Brother's keeper refers to our obligation as religious people to care for the wellbeing of our fellow man. It does not intended to justify extorting tax dollars to provide needles so that people can use illegal drugs. It does not confer onto man an obligation to pick up those needles left laying about.
The treaties you mention are poverty machines. You could not create a worse system that what exists right now, where there are no property rights, dependence on federal and band assistance and lack of accountability. The reserves are not poverty-stricken because the government dishonored the treaties, but because the government abided by them. If you want to talk about saving lives and reducing Aboriginal drug use, this would be a good conversation to have (again, off topic).
By the way, I think the idea of giving Aboriginals free needles to use drugs to solve their problems is offensive. You do a disservice to your argument by framing it based on race.
Peg (Registered User)
It's not racism to say that the majority of the drug users appear to be Native. Just look downtown and in the streets elsewhere, where the druggies and such hang out. It's an established fact, not a biased opinion. Don't quote me on it, but I read somewhere that the majority of people in PA are Native, not white or 'other'. Basic math says that they will have the greater 'number' of addicts, even if they have the smallest percentage. Factor in the statistical probability of having lived or been raised on a reserve and you increase that percentile number.
I'm hearing a lot of people say that they don't mind if people help the addicts, they just don't want to be where the addicts hang out. I can appreciate that, but expecting someone else to do the dirty work of 'caring enough' is a bit much. I can't say as I'd call that 'civilized', much less 'religious'. It's hypocritical. The "well-being of our fellow man", your words. And addicts don't qualify as 'fellow men'?
I live in the West Flat. Needles are all over the place, so are kids. We keep our eyes on the ground, picking up what we can when we can. It's not that big a deal. It's part of my neighbourhood's community spirit. We work on trying to keep our area safe and clean for the kids and for us *in spite* of the addicts, not because of them. Needles get dumped in an old jug and when the jug is full, we take it down to the Fire Dept. We consider it a bit of 'civic duty', if you will. It's not that hard a job if we all take some responsibility for the neighbourhood. Now, if the poorest section of town can manage that much pride and caring, why can't the rest of the city?
No, it's not our 'job' to clean up after addicts, but it is our 'job' to keep our community safe and clean.
disgusted (Guest)
Good for you and your community for taking the risk of picking up needles, but i'm all out of cookies. Just because you do something and see no big deal about the act and feel better because you feel you are helping, does not mean everyone should have the same feelings. touching those needles IS NOT SAFE! Since you started picking up needles in your neighbourhood has the number you picked up decreased?
It's funny, I always thought that the 'job' of keeping communities safe and clean was placed upon the 'city representitives' 'health regions' and the 'police". It is not the job of the general public to ensure that their community is safe and clean.
I will not risk my health and safety to clean up the streets/parks/parking lots, its not as simple as pickign up a piece of arbage an dplacing it in the trash can!
SooperNoob (Guest)
I really wish you would drop the race-based argument. It is really foolish. If like you say the majority of people in PA are Aboriginal (which I doubt), then I don't get how you can say that the majority doesn't understand the plight of the Aboriginal. Your argument defeats itself. But the actual issue is the needles laying about everywhere.
If you are running about picking up needles, then I applaude you. Job well done. But I don't think that takes away from talking about why we need to pick up dirty needles in the first place. I would not burden you with the role of 'Head Needle-Picker-Upper' for the whole city. Nor would I burden the residents of their block for the same duty, because I'd look at the person that gave a needle to a junky and shame them for it. The idea that they think they are saving lives by doing so is admirable, but it is also a false one. You prevented a hepatitis infection because you gave out 300,000 needles. Good on you. How do you stop the hep infections from home tattoos? Free tattoos for all. Or sexual contact? Mandatory STD screening and disclosure. The idea that the government, acting through the local health district, to save us all from our own actions is first, ridiculous; second, unobtainable; and third, incredibly scary.
Follow the path. First we are giving needles to IV drug users so that they can shoot illegal narcotics to numb the pain of their life. Next we are giving free booze to alcoholics (we're already there). Then the people who love Insite want to give free government approved heroin to drug users, because 'if it only saves one life'... Now the coke snorters are claiming discrimination because coke shooters are getting free supply. Then the sex addict wants his government paid, unionized, and licensed prostitute because you've indulged everyone else so far. And why wouldn't we provide that service at that point?
Rather than drawing a line here and now as we should, we are assuming that it is our responsibility as collective taxpayers to provide needles, debating on whether we should provide a safe site to use them, and being told as individuals that it is our "civic duty" to pick them up once they are used. I think it's lunacy that we've even allowed ourselves to think this way.
momof4 (Guest)
Peg (Registered User)
I get tired of picking up needles, too, but what I hear everyone saying is that it's the *government's* job to fix the problem. I don't believe it is. I don't believe that it's *just* the government's job. The citizens have to do something about it, too. And I think the first thing that needs adjusting is the apathy and/or anger that *everyone* concerned feels. Am I my brother's keeper? Yes, I have to be. He's also *my* keeper. As I see it, I have three choices - I can rant about it but do nothing constructive, I can clean up the mess and let my brother go on as he has been, or I can do something about **changing** the way my brother looks at the world.
So far, any suggestions about changing the person, offering them help in a safe environment, have been met with derision and ridicule. Safe sites work. Bottom line. So let's provide one. Let's do our own experiment and find out if they'll work here. "Well, there are places they can go for help now!" you say. Yeah, and when was the last time **you** asked for help with an addiction or mental illness or just to learn how to feel better about yourself? You've never doubted yourself? You've never been taught that you're worthless? I heard a very disturbing "joke" the other day. Some people seem to think that they're "Penny Prince Albertans". They're brown and worthless. So what does that make the rest of us? Postage Stamp Prince Albertans? White and useless?
Everyone wants someone else to fix the problem. Fine. Let them try, but don't knock them down for trying something different, something that might actually work. I don't know if it will. The studies *say* it does, but I've never been to that area of Vancouver. I couldn't tell you how well it works. But if it *does* work, even a bit, aren't we obligated as a community to try it? So far, everything we've done, including all the so-called 'shaming' hasn't worked. You're only making the situation worse by calling addicts down. If they'd been taught any sort of self-respect or self-confidence, they wouldn't be in this mess now.
TJ (Registered User)
"Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good." Thomas Sowell
enough! (Guest)
Peg (Registered User)
Jerry (Guest)
Kk (Guest)
Clodbuster (Guest)
Are detox centers and needle exchanges bandaid cures.....yes! But until we come up with some viable solutions to what the actual causes are of these ever growing problems, do we have a choice? I would rather have the alcoholic sleep it off in the detox bed rather than having to step over them on the street (for their sake and ours). And I would rather have the junkie (I hate that word) have a safe place to do what they need to do and a proper container to drop their needle in than having to run across their items throughout the city. And don't be fooled that it's any better or worse in P.A. than anywhere else. I have lived in a fair number of cities and it's no different anywhere else! Rather than brainstorming for blame or criticism, why don't we try to put our heads together to figure out how to make it better....and notice I say make it better as it is not something that is ever going to 'go away'. Sorry folks, a dreamer and a realist all in one! :)
TJ (Registered User)
Look at the artical about the mother who lost her children...that was a wake up call and she took the actions needed to start her life on a differant path. I hope she suceeds and I hope others can get off the drugs too but I am not in favour of anyone helping them to continue down the self destructive path of drug abuse that is really just a slow form of suicide. That's what the needle exchange and insight do...they help the addicts kill themselves. And that in my opinion is wrong.
joe blow (Guest)
Peg (Registered User)
Kk (Guest)
Kk (Guest)
Oh yeah, I would also educate your children about the needles. What they look like and what they can do. Also, what to do if they see one. I wouldnt even go into telling them what they are used for, unless if you believe your child is mature enough to handle it.
They taught me this back in elementary - and to this day, i have not touched a needle on the ground since i new what they were and how dangerous they can be.
Shawn Cody (Registered User)
dirty (Guest)
someone (Guest)
Josh (Guest)
Josh (Guest)
Marlene (Guest)
Peg (Registered User)
Marlene, it's not the Needle Exchange that's the problem. It's the fact that drug dealers pre-load syringes and sell them. *That's* where the needles are coming from. If someone doesn't know, or doesn't want to know how to load a needle, they'll buy the rigs, not go for a needle exchange. The addicts aren't going to carry around a loaded needle and not use it until they get to a safe site or wait to toss the needle at an exchange or drop box.
*We*, the majority of the community, don't have the first clue about drugs and how they're used beyond the basics. The police know more. The people that work with the addicts know more. And those people say that a safe site works. I'm not sure how it does, but that's because I don't know that kind of addiction. I doubt any of us do. Give it a chance to work. What have we got to lose? What we're doing now doesn't work.
Marlene (Guest)
Peg (Registered User)
Concerned (Guest)
I would like to also say that I totally 1000% agree with Marlene. If these places like "the needle exchange" would do what they are suppose to, we wouldn't have this problem. If these people are so incompetent fire them or hold them accountable. Hold the government accountable. Enough is enough. I have a friend that ownes a business and day after day he has to search the outside of his business for needles. The darn thing is... there is a needle drop box right there too.
FOR GOD SAKES DO SOMETHING HERE!
scrote44 (Guest)
Closed dm (Guest)
TJ (Guest)