Here's the law:
http://www3.ce9.uscourts.gov/jury-instructions/node/153

Don't keep your valuables in view and lock your doors.

Search is one thing, taking your belongings without permission is stealing. Simply to search without reason is one offense, and taking what is found is another offense. I think there is good grounds to sue the police for breaking and entering, and theft.

They are just trying to prevent property from being stolen.

yeah, by stealing it themselves first.

The following was taken from the New Haven Register
"Sharp said they will run the plate number of the car to try to reach the owner. If they can’t, the police will take the property, lock the car door and leave a receipt informing them who has the item and what time to come and pick it up". Sharp is the police district manager for the East Rock area.
How can this be considered stealing when they are trying to contact the owner and are willing to give the property back to the rightful owner.

xyz.. you have a naïve trust in New Haven's finest. Do you know how many items in the property department get 'lost'? What Sharp said, and what happens may be very different. and.. even with a 'receipt' it is still taken without permission, which is stealing. There is no law which allows the confiscation of private property from inside a vehicle or home or yard, whether it is locked or not. The only confiscation of any private property from any private property is if there is some crime involved and there is strong probable cause why it should be immediately removed.

Read the law.

I did. So, let the cops take your stuff. They better not take mine.

If you do not want them to take your stuff do not leave them where they can be viewed or change the law. Should they take your stuff what are you going do?
I rather have the police take my stuff then the criminals.

That's like saying "if you don't want to get raped then don't be a woman". The person who is violated is guilty for being vulnerable? The thief is not guilty because you opened yourself to being violated.. and so it is here, xyz,, you open yourself to being violated.. These cops are not all honest people.. and there is too much opportunity to have your things just disappear, and you will never know. A cop taking your stuff with a witness can use this law,, and the stuff will be 'lost'.. the cop might not leave his name and number, and no one would ever resolve it.. this happens too many times already. Do you know how many items get 'lost'? like 20% .

Although people are understandably arguing about whether this property safekeeping thing is a form of stealing, the biggest theft here is of your constitutional rights. I have never read anywhere of a chief of police attempting to push the envelope of the caretaker exception this far and believe me, there is nothing benign about that or him

XYZ - that is not "the law" those are jury instructions used in the 9th circuit, which is a circuit on the west coast. the law is the fourth amendment. the caretaker exception is not a statute passed by the legislature, it has been carved out by the courts in case decisions over many years where the courts have recognized exceptions to the warrant requirement under the fourth amendment, case by case.

None of the case law addressing the caretaker exception resembles this program in New Haven, none of them come even close. I have never seen it pushed this far and am dead sure it is not the law, is not legal and that the courts would shut it down at the first opportunity. Which begs the question as to why the chief is attempting it. Our chief happens to be a lawyer, after all. What's his agenda? Protecting the purse you left in your car? I rather doubt that.

Thank you, "guest". Well said.

The NHPD Dept's Property room has lost lots of money and much more in the way of drugs..
Sadly it was quite a few more than ,"A few bad apples".

..That's an awful lot of police work for the blue ; Inspecting cars , writing down plate numbers and locating the owners, trying to call them , (opening the lap top and phone for "clues" in regards to the attempt to contact the owner..Leaving notes . .Calling the wagon or a special van for aforementioned goods..

For a department that takes over 3 hours to answer a call , has no time for bike stuff, CAN'T and WONT give an accident report to anybody

The police are trying to reduce burglaries. I think we all can agree we have a much better chance of getting our property back if they take it then if a criminal does. If you do not want them to take your property do not leave it where it can be viewed,

You can't go around suspending the fourth amendment for a mere crime prevention program.

I am dying of curiosity to know who in the city OK'd this foolishness. It doesn't reflect well on the intelligence of anyone in city government who went along with it. They are making fools of themselves. This is just another example of the ability of this police chief at times to slip into bizarre stuff, either emotionally or intellectually or otherwise. It is an embarrassment.

XYZ, you don't seem to care a wit for our duty as citizens to protect our rights under the constitution. Just because an initiative seems to have good intentions and may prevent some crimes doesn't cure, or forgive a permanent erosion of a constitutional right. If these rights were not the foundation of our democracy who would care? But it happens that they are. You can't allow government actors to engage in activities that would erode those rights, period. Your a silly person if you don't know that - it's basic civics.

guest,, again, well said.. except for the name calling. It is probably the Chief, who is a lawyer,, though this is the second time I know of that the law has actually been perverted by him,, and Mayor Toni Harp is in his pocket.. I'm going out to vote in a few minutes and am ready to vote for anybody but Ms Harp.

yes, i succumbed. apologies. it is very frustrating. notice, chief was out of two recently at the latest conclave of chiefs -- is this a pattern? Perhaps next time we read he is about to take off to one of these things, we should send a hallmark card saying "don't come home with any crazy ideas." residents are yet again made to feel like guinea pigs.

and i can't help thinking that his gender and his uniform tend to disguise his being off his rocker at times: his maudlin community policing lectures comparing police to the neighborhood doctor, his meltdown at the Yale Bowl, this very attention-getting, very intrusive foray to the very edges of the galaxy on fourth amendment exceptions.

This latest thing suggests just a manifold of emotional, personal and intellectual motivations to me.Call it poor judgment, whatever, under the skin, I see a lot of weird.

I still will rather have the police take my property and get it back then a criminal and not get it back.

And hold until good behavior is noted , only when the police feel you are adjusted in thought ..Only when you are deemed compliant and have learned your lesson will the police return your belongings ..OOPS they lost it.

xyz, key phrase is 'get it back', but, you see that is the question.. Would you really get it back? I think you have as much chance of getting it back from a civilian thief than from a cop, especially here in New Haven.

I would take my chances of getting my property back from the police not from a civilian thief To think unwise is ridiculous .

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/car_break-in_experiment_suspended/

Just think now when your smart phone is stolen from your car with important data the chance of getting it back are slim to nil. You are going to wish that there was a possibility that the police may have it.

Don't you know, XYZ, that the caretaker exception, if it applied to this program -- and thank god it doesn't -- would give the police the right to read all your messages, take down all your cell data, phone numbers,contacts etc? Once the exception kicks in ALL your property is subject to search. That means two things - if you are a crook, any criminal evidence there, they are free to act on. If you are law abiding, the scoop-up is in the form of intelligence and data about you. They want intelligence. They like getting it.

the chief is a lawyer - either he is 1) completely loony toons, 2) a predator when it comes to violating our rights who did this program on purpose to shake us up, knowing it wouldn't fly or 3) he is negligent about guiding his officers, being there for them before they try things like this and make fools of themselves.

And what about doctors and journalists and other professionals who have enhanced protection under warrant requirements - that goes out the window too? Ridiculous. If the chief wasn't AWOL, and was involved in rolling this out, he did so knowing all this -- so, if he was involved, he was up to something. This thing was way out there

The article on the front page of this morning's New Haven Register says that this program is suspended even though Esserman thinks it is a wonderful idea. see link above

Oh, I can't edit that, and I notice that the link is to the Independent and not the Register.. so, here's the one to the Register for the current day:

http://www.nhregister.com/general-news/20151104/new-haven-ends-cop-caretaker-program-of-taking-items-for-safekeeping-from-unlocked-cars-after-1-day

I guess if I see my neighbor's wallet or purse on his front lawn and he is not home I should not pick it up and give it to him when he comes home.

This has been an interesting thread -- but I have to weigh in here because the lawn scenario is just absurd and not analogous at all to a policeman entering a closed car and taking something out of that person's car.

What If you knew cars have recently been broken into on your street , your neighbor left his wallet in plain view in his unlock car, and he would not be not home for at least two days would you take the wallet and give it to him when he returns?

SUSPENDED

Until you people (East Rock Yalie types) learn to look after your own possesions, I guess the cops will have to do it for you.

Stop being such easy targets for theft, first and foremost.

XYZ-- of course I would hold and return the wallet and if I had my neighbor's phone number or email I would try to notify them. This is still very different from the police case -- if the situation were as extreme as you say, I might expect a police officer coming across such a case to make an effort to find out whose car it is and contact them and talk to neighbors. But that is still very different from a blanket policy of seizing property from any car int he area.

Taken from the New Haven Register November 1
"Sharp said they will run the plate number of the car to try to reach the owner. If they can’t, the police will take the property, lock the car door and leave a receipt informing them who has the item and what time to come and pick it up". Sharp is the police district manager for East Rock.
You can see from this statement that the police would try and contact the owner,if they could not then they would hold the property for the owner before it is stolen. The police are only trying to prevent burglaries. Here we have a neighborhood that has an increase in car burglaries, leave their cars unlock with valuables in view,and complains when the police try to help. I won't shed a tear when I hear of car burglaries in your area.

Another thing for those who lock their cars and keep valuables out of view you better tell your visitors to do the same.

Agreed. A ridiculous idea was shut down promptly. Next.

Thanks for fixing this issue!

The thanks is to all of you neighbors who helped to address this issue in knowledgeable and wise ways, including xyz whose theoretical idealism was a helpful part of the discussion,, and thanks to "guest" , whose knowledge of law has been quite helpful,, and to the other 'guest' whose knowledge of Esserman and probable 'realistic' results of the program... and all who helped to get the 'ridiculous idea' shut down promptly. This is 'seeclickfix' at its best.

This is far from over in the future lets see how you people feel when property is taken from cars and are in the hands of criminals instead of the police. Lets see if you get them back. This is not theoretical idealism it is reality.

xyz, I gave you a compliment, but.. hmmm now you are pushing it.. The truth is that sometimes the hands of criminals and the hands of the police are the same hands. and that's the reality. I don't know why you have such a strong investment in this.. are you a cop? Don't answer that. I have been working with cops all my life. There are some very heroic, brave, fine people that are trying to be the best community police they can be, and that's not easy. And there are some very corrupt people who should never have been admitted to the force and yet there they are dragging everybody down.. and that is the reality. I'm done with this thread.. and if you think the situation itself is not over,, then will deal with it on another thread on another day.

I am not a cop.
Every profession has some bad apples. Let me know if you know of one which doesn't.
There are some bad doctors but does that mean we do not trust all of them?
Lt Sparks who I do not know attempts to be proactive to correct a problem I feel should show some support instead the opposite happens.This one of the reasons for my posts and his idea would help the problem. It would not stop all the burglaries but I feel it would prevent some.

We all want the break ins and other crimes to stop. City attorneys have already shut this operation down because it violates numerous laws. So, the new issue is coming up with better solutions to address the issue, not to keep pushing this ill-advised one. Therefore, this thread should close.

I'm going to post a coment with my 'thanks', because I have to think that this thread on this site was helpful in bringing the issue to the attention of some social activists who know what to do when both 'authorities' and other 'citizens' try subtly to trample on our rights.

This is thanks that this program is dropped before Esserman had to deal with some major lawsuits.

btw.. I sign as 'neighbor' because I am. I'm aware of the ongoing issues in the neighborhood. What is supposed to happen is that the police make sure nobody is going into your car or on your porch. Community policing means your neighborhood patrol cop knows his neighborhood and its people, and is protecting your goods by paying attention to 'suspicious behavior',, and, if Block Watch is active then the people themselves are looking out for each other too. If there is a theft, then it gets reported and investigated promptly, and the culprits are caught and punished. Then word goes out that that neighborhood is too risky to play in. .. You might even try a sting. leave something out on purpose and watch it,, and see who picks it up.. and get right on them. Then word goes out that that Block Watch is right on top of things.

The police were trying to be neighbors and prevent personal property from being stolen and for the most part all they got was criticism. In a nutshell this was the program
1. See personal property in an unlock vehicle
2. Try and locate owner from the plate number.
3. If unable to locate owner remove property and store it in a safe place so the owner can reclaim it.
Does this warrant all the criticism they received? The man from mars must be looking down and saying, "these people from earth are hard to please".

Yes, it warranted all the criticism they received. It was stealing private property and was only that the cops would steal it instead of a civilian. The program also involves a lot of steps for each item, which was not going to happen. It's better if they would really do all the things that they are already supposed to do in a proper way. As it is the New Haven Police Department has enough to bring it up to perform their regular duties.

It is not stealing if you try to locate the owner before you take it and once you secure it give the item back to the owner,

The only residents that would leave anything in their car or on a porch are the unsuspecting uninformed new arrivals , students who are gullible and not told what a crime riddled dump New Haven is ( Nothing in the brochure stating high crime,violence or a lackadaisal nonchalant police department).
After one has given a monetary sacrifice of some sort are they diligent and aware.

Maybe if the police took temporarily custody of their property they would learn without losing any valuables.

Proper policing is all that is needed.

What is needed is for everyone to do their part in a community,, Block Watch, police, and individual citizen responsibility.

The Lt Sharp wanted to prevent items from being stolen and people got extremely upset.

@Joseph H. -Gratuitous insults to a wonderful community are offensive, counter to the spirit of SeeClickFix, and totally uncalled for! You are free to take your jaundiced negativism out to the suburbs where you will have good company....

Most of us one time or other left valuables in a car either because we were rushing to get into the house or because our minds are preoccupied. Like I have said before I would rather have the police take and safeguard them then the the criminals.

@Guest visiting East Rock - what ? I live in East Rock , but traveled to the State of Mass. once - WHERE YOUR FROM !
Jaundiced ? You must have left your ramen noodles at the med school

What is one to make of Joseph H's post?

One makes of the posts of xyz, josh and Joseph that you are all playing King of the Mountain and should just let this thread drop now.

Why?

So no extra police patrol in East Rock ..If anything we saw reductions in patrol cars and low visibility beat cops . Demanding and then pleading for cop patrols has not come to fruition.
But were supposed to believe they will miraculously appear the second one leaves a valuable in their "unlocked" vehicle ..
Then what ,take the cars or suv's fancy rims because no lock was visible ?
- What to make of my posts ?
Truth hurts , right is right , ridiculous as this proposal ..
By the way , Officer Sharp looks familiar , was he a delivery guy ?

Lt Sharp's photo was in the news in regards the girl that was thrown to the ground downtown on St Patrick's Day,, and the knife was planted on her to try to justify the rough treatment as not excessive,, so you might have seen his photo then.

@Guest , thank you , i knew he looked familiar , did see him then , But he still resembles -possibly someone else , perhaps a brother , Maybe nothing..
p.s. that St.Patrick's Day incident is disturbing

The police can not be at right police at right time consistently, that was the reason for Lt. Sharp's plan.

We are closing this request due to its historic nature. If this concern still requires attention and you still believe SeeClickFix is a viable tool for its resolution the best way for it to be addressed is for you to create a new request including a current description of what is occurring and what solution you hope to see regarding this matter, citing/linking this request in the details. Thank you for your dedication to improving the quality of life in our community.