Bums and homeless people have been hanging around in that plaza for years now, and still nothing is ever done about them!

I used to work at the old Grand Union (now Hannaford) back in the 90's, and it was the same way back then. Bums everywhere, interrupting cashiers and customers, causing fights, holding up everyone else while cashing their SSI checks... It's the same thing there nowadays, I'm sure.

And, as usual, the City of Kingston does nothing about it. The politicians are all too busy begging for money from NYS to pad their own cushy retirements, while the average citizen gets harrassed by drunken vagrants who have no business loitering around shopping centers.

The city needs to heavily concentrate on the skyrocketing number of quality-of-life issues if it ever expects to attract more business, and compete with other local towns in the Hudson Valley.

Otherwise the City of Kingston will become yet another example of a run-down, dilapidated, drug-infested old town littering the region up and down the Hudson Valley.

Like posted previously ,it was going when it was the Grand Union and it still is.This is the main reason I wont shop down there and the MAIN reason why other Business dont want to go there.Kingston just loves human trash follow the map from central broadway to the trash plaza nothing ever changes .You would think the owners of the plaza would contact the Famous KPD to chase em out based on a loiting LAW.,NOPE as long as these kinds of people arent in their political neighborhoods. Truth be known those who are fortunate enough to leave this dirty town are going and hopefully mine will be too in about 5yrs. No room for cleanup or change here..

again ,,,,the need for the kings inn to be turned into 20-40 units for these unfortunates who have an income but cant find housing... come on kingston get the people out of cardboard city/ tent city....and into respectable housing, then you will attract the proper businesses you want thriving here..

I have no problem for a place like the Kings Inn to be used as housing to help the less fortunate but I work in the plaza. If you were to see how much money these "bums" (in lack of a better word) spend every day on beer, let alone in a week they could afford some type of housing if they wanted to. They are choosing to live like this and that is their business. I just rather they do it in a different place. Isn't drinking in public illegal ? Isn't being intoxicated in public illegal ? They are always using profanity left and right and urinating in public in a place where people bring their children to shop.

Concerned worker is correct Annie. According to the Sherrif they are homeless by choice, not because of a lack of proper housing. They choose to live this way because if they behaved the way they do in the Hannaford Hooverville in a group home, they would be kicked out. So to keep themselves high on government checks, they choose the life of a vagrant. Personally I would like to see the government take a more active role in publicly funded drug and alcohol addiction. To put it simply, you can get an ssi debit card (not cash) and with this card you can buy everything EXCEPT alcohol & ciggarettes. This won't stop them from getting it but it would make it more difficult for them and in the long run may turn one or two around. This would also be a good way for housing units that accept ssi renters to screen tennants because the cards would contain information about previous rentals, behavior, criminal backround etc..etc. Don't get me wrong though. I don't like big brother any more than anyone else, but when you pay tax increases year after year & struggle to make payments, only to watch freeloaders @#$% on the legal system, it seems like the only solution. I say make everyone accountable....if your disabled and can't work that's one thing, but if not, be accountable for your life choices and stop stealing from those who live right.

Who you calling a "freeloader"?

Maybe New York could turn into a dry state, or at least the county could turn dry. Poor folks' cars are for sleeping, at best, so only those with working vehicles would be able to get the alcohol. Then, all the sour grapes would be crushed.

"Human trash"? Can I quote you?

*comment removed

I'd like to respond to Mr. Gurrieri's posting.

First of all, your arguement is completely incomprehensible.

Secondly, the people you call "the toxic tea-drinkers" (also known as the "Tea Party") seem to be the only people who are finally standing up to exactly this kind of governmental apathy, idiocy, and underhanded skulduggery that we have had to endure for the last 50 years in this country!

However, I don't even know what your motivation is to bring the Tea Party, North Korea, Pesticide Free Zones or Pentagon Contract Soldiers into this discussion-- They have nothing to do with the topic at hand!

I happen to be a registered member of the NYS Conservative Party, (I can hear all the gasps right now), and I believe this country needs to get back to the founding principles of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, as does the Tea Party.

But people's political affiliations have nothing to do with not wanting to be harassed by bums loitering around a shopping center!

My original point is that the government of the City of Kingston (and most of New York State, for that matter) is quagmired in the belief that it can ignore exactly these kind of issues, and let everything remain status quo.

This is unacceptable, and the taxpayers deserve better from the law enforcement services they are paying for.

The SeeClickFix Team asks that everyone do their best to keep the conversation positive and constructive. For more specific information, please see the SeeClickFix Terms of Use.

I will be reporting comments that are nothing more then trolling and off topic.

This is one the reasons I stopped shopping in the plaza unless absolutely necesary sometime ago. Even though it is closer to me than similar stores. I would think that the owners and landlords would recognize this and do something. It is private property and trespassing charges can be filed against disruptive individuals just like they do to kids in the mall.

Why was my comment deleted? It was on subject, apolitical and not offensive.

My comment was also deleted - just shows the ALL-MIGHT of the toxic tea drinkers within todays society longing to be healthy!

That happend to me that it took 24 hours for a observation of mine made it to the screen. I don't flatter myself over it, it just happened. If it happens a second time, I will let you know.

I would suggest saying something to Herzogs, since they own the place. Tell them that you would like to shop there, but with the problems, you can't. They can make the calls.

The bums are the best customers. I know I am. got me a nice wood splitter there, could never find another one as good ever again. should have bought two.

I flagged 2 comments to be removed. Phil and Bon. Paul, I have no idea what your comment was and didn't flag it.

Phil,

This has nothing to do with the tea party and everything to do with staying on topic. Unlike the Freeman site, this site is moderated correctly. Your political RANTS are not bringing anything contructive to the table. So I flagged it as inappropriate. This will be the last time I speak on this subject. STAY ON TOPIC and stop trolling.

ANYBODY who talks about politics is a lost cause. SCF is NOT a political discussion board. Stick to the subject.

Kingston Plaza owns the patch of woods behind the shopping center. Call the owner and have them remove the campsite due to it being;

a) a zone volation &
b) litter

Last I checked, vagrancy is a crime. So is public drunkeness and assault. Call the police. We have services our tax money pays for, USE THEM.

I don't wanna read a posting of "You must be a Nazi 'cause Glenn Beck said..." or "You're stupid because Keith Olberman would have definitely...". I would rather read "I called KPD and they..." OR, " The owner of the plaza said over the phone that...", PERIOD. Ya dig? One phone call could solve this.

It dosen't personally affect me, because I use the auto parts store, where the bums don't hang out. I never go to that Hannaford (I'm a miser that frequents ALDI's and Sam's Club). But I can tell from driving by that the vagrant problem is getting bad, and I don't mean by the number of vagrants, just the volume of their actions.

herzogs owns the Plaza. They have a financial interest in keeping it a safe and friendly place to shop. They are also very involved with community events. They care about the city. They have their own security guards walking around all day. A few phone calls from those concerned would probably do the trick. They have the resources.

The above comment I made was the one I thought was removed. Sorry Michael, bad timing.

I also apologize if it came off angry. I also intend on making a phone call (or two) to set the example here on Monday. Everyone reading, join me in calling Herzog's in voicing a concern. I'm sure they (Herzog) wants your business and will do something.

has the department of veterans affairs been notified of this complaint?

an enormous number of our elite combat veterans, for reasons none of us can understand, have taken to the streets.

should any of these men and women be veterans, i myself being a combat veteran, would like to see the VA step in an outreach capacity.

they served us.
now we can serve them.

perhaps with some love for our brothers and sisters and not contempt and hate, we can get them to a better place and give them the basic human rights that they fought for us to have.

short of that, typing an opinion does nothing to solve the problem....it just adds to it.

i love the 'call the police' comments. yes ... that's it ... because calling the police is going to fix everything.. wrong!!! so, say the police come and arrest them for ... say ... simple trespass. then what? do you expect these individuals to stay in jail forever? for a simple violation? is this the end all resolution to this problem? call the cops? i dont think so. this is more of a social AND political issue than a 'criminal' issue.

so .. lets see .... you don't want 'them' in the academy green park (that issue was opened previously), and you don't want them in the plaza, and you don't want them sleeping in cars on the streets ..... so, maybe we ship them all to the international space station? would that work for you people??? get my point?

plain and simple: the city needs to work with the county in order to place individuals like this other than the parks or the plaza. the problem is that there is no place for them because they've already been kicked out of a majority of shelters because of their behavior. this is a social services issue because they're the ones that place individuals in housing. but, as i stated before, if an individual has worn out their welcome, then where do they go?

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There's a reason my wife and I, even though we live less than a mile from Kingston Plaza, will trek over to the Ulster Avenue Hannaford for groceries, and refer to this one in casual conversation as "The Dirty Hannaford".

The area is just nasty, and it propagates into the store (I've been accosted at the checkout lane by someone trying to commit food-stamp-fraud more than once).

We mentioned it to the Hannaford manager one time (when I was forced by circumstance to go in there), in the hopes that if I told him "You, as a store-manager, are losing business because of what's going on around you" that he might be inclined to complain upwards to his landlord, etc., but clearly nothing's happened.

I vote we send them over to buford's house.

The point behind the trespass complaint is that it is private property and the plaza owners have just as much right to call cops as you do at your house if they were there.

It is only a social service issue if these people want the help. I can tell you from outreach experience with them that they are perfectly content living the way they do. Most don't want to live in a apt or shelter, and they certainly don't want others telling them to stop spending their money on booze and cigarettes.

"Ban The Bums!"

Copper Top, as a fellow combat vet, I feel ya. I don't think the two in question are vets, but i'll look into it.

Many people don't really understand this but ALOT of homeless people are Vets,disabled in someway or have an addiction.Instead of wagging fingers at these people "WE" the community should be figuring out why are these people not being helped.Sometimes people have problems and because of these problems they lose everything and they "check-out".There should be more programs to help these people, to help them clean up, build skills and self esteem so they too can join society activley.You never know the kind of life someone has lived, they should get a chance too.
My brother was once homeless vet,addicted to meth,H and pills.He was prior to that a very dedicated father who served his country proudly for 20 some years.He was hurt on his ship and became mentally disabled, his wife left him and he lost his kids. From there his life went down hill, he lived on the street and let drugs take over.But luckly our family came together and helped him.It took a long time but he's much better now and has a civilian job for the military and it's good to see him proud of himself. Remember those "bums" are human beings and could be your brother or someones father or son.

anonymous wrote:

"I vote we send them over to buford's house.

The point behind the trespass complaint is that it is private property and the plaza owners have just as much right to call cops as you do at your house if they were there.

It is only a social service issue if these people want the help. I can tell you from outreach experience with them that they are perfectly content living the way they do. Most don't want to live in a apt or shelter, and they certainly don't want others telling them to stop spending their money on booze and cigarettes."

and, you know what, you're right. you can only help those that WANT help or admit that they NEED help. but, as stated, these people are very content living the way they do.

as far as the plaza management: again, if they call the police, they get arrested, then it's up to the judge as to what to do with these individuals. the crime that they committed (that of a simple violation of trespass) 99% does not warrant jail time. so, what is the justice system supposed to do to resolve an issue that is clearly a social issue?

so, anonymous, instead of sending them over to my house (lol!!!), should we behead them, or hang them, or send them in prison for life? what is the REAL answer here to resolve this problem? because calling the cops is not it.

Oooooh boy, here we go....

I know we have some passionate feelings about the situation. On one side;

People who shop here and frequent the area (sometimes with children) should not be subject to agressive, unruly or threatening language or behavior. You must empathize with them to understand.

On the other side;

The homeless in question are living hand to mouth (literally). Trust me when I say it, NO ONE really wants to live in a tent by the woods, and should not have their liberties stifled to give others more liberties (again, empathize with the other side).

But neither view is the case in point. This thread is again degrading into a political mess. Here's what happens with politics; One side yells at the other, the other side yells back, both sides get into a screaming match, and in the end everyone is angry at everyone else and nothing gets done.

This thread was started to TRY to come up with a solution to the homeless problem in the vicinity to Hannaford. Two answers come to mind;

1. The manager of the plaza should be called on Monday. Period. This is HIS property and he can run it as he sees fit. You have to remember his first priority is," The customer is always right ". He wants business, and if he is notified by some concerned (potential) customers, he will deal with it as he sees fit.

2. The vagrants mentioned before are hanging out here because they know people spend money here, and want a handout. I'm cool with that (if you were homeless, wouldn't you do the same thing, especially if you had a condition, mental, physical, social or otherwise that stopped you from working?). You CAN give them a handout. It is the christian thing to do (or humanist, depending on your point of view). But you do not have to give them money. Remember, the second that money leaves your hand, you have no say in where it goes. They can use it to get a meal, get cleaned up, or to call a relative for help. OR they can use it to buy alcohol and smokes. Up to them.

I suggest giving them food. They probably are hungry and will not turn it down. You get a nice warm feeling, they don't feel hunger pains, problem solved (for the moment).

The next time I see them (which is not often, unless I need car parts), I will ask them if any military veterans are among them. If there are, I will offer to drive them to the VA facuilities in Dutchess or Westchester county, because they WILL get help there (I can attest to you they really do care and are top notch). If there are not, I can't do much. They're people, not stray dogs.

But then again, I will be asking Herzog what they plan to do about the issue, because, again, no one should be subject to this.

I really want people to come together to help each other on this issue. Both sides are right & wrong. SCF should be used as a utility to facuilitate cooperation in solving community issues, NOT as a political soapbox. Please keep that in mind.

'Nuff said.

My father hoped that I would be
A man of great renown
But I am just a refugee
As I go ramblin' round , boys
As I go ramblin round

Ramblin round your city
Ramblin round your town
I never see a friend I know
As I go ramblin round

Woody, Woody, Woody!!!

I would contact the store manager then the corporate office as well as Herzogs. And make sure you let the manager know that you will be contacting corporate headquarters.

Hannaford Supermarkets
145 Pleasant Hill Road
Scarborough, ME 04074

Phone:
For customer concerns or questions – (800) 213-9040
For our corporate directory – (800) 442-6049

ok based on most of this conversation the only concern is to get these people out of there and I am not in disagreement. However were do they go? They will find anouther place to squat. What is the true answer to solve issues involved.

That's another SCF entry altogether.

Paul...I agree with you 100%. I think Hannaford managers, corporate hq and Herzogs should be contacted...posing the question: what is your organization going to do about it? Not telling them that there is a problem, I'm sure they are aware of it, but that an answer/solution is required.
We need to focus on what is happening in our backyard. This is a national epidemic and does not need to be solved on SCF. Let's stay focused so that the current and future businesses can not only survive in that plaza but thrive.

Post Script: Apparently none you present have been over to Wilbur Avenue within the last week. The sewer pipes are all tore up from the ball field by the railroad tracks with sawhorses all the way down to the Esopus. Wait for it to snow, then your problem at the plaza will be as out of sight as your sewer pipes have been, until they get overloaded or Spring comes. Then the cycle begins all over. Le Sacre du Printemps.

There are two issues people are arguing about - one is a quality of life issue. It is illegal to loiter, drink in public, and otherwise do what some of the homeless folks do around Hannafords. They need to be removed. Allowing them to be there for "humanitarian" reasons actually just makes what they do permissable and degrades the area. There's no question about that.

In terms of getting them help - I would encourage all to assist the many organizations working hard to do so: Family of Woodstock, Queens Galley, People's place, etc. Giving people anything on the street just encourages them to stay there. I encourage you to go talk to them and find out what they need. For the most part, these people are there by choice - even though they are not living some glorious life. They need extensive help - and it's not easy. They don't like living with the rules that the help forces on them (no drinking at the Queens Galley - often must attend workshops for housing assistance, etc.) So in the end, helping people with handouts (especially money) just allows them to continue to survive on the streets rather than doing the hardwork required to improve their lives.

All of their situations are different and challenging. But giving them handouts and allowing them to loiter is helping them stay in the streets. Do NOT give them handouts and encourage Herzogs to push them out. That is both in their best interest and in the communities best interest.

True that. I don't have an answer to the homeless problem (if I did, I'd probably have a cure for poverty, drug abuse and hunger all together). Neither does anyone else in town. But then again, I don't run Hannaford (or any gov't, aside from my vote). I'm as powerless about this situation as you are. We can only do what we can do.

We should use the resources we have to benefit everyone involved. This is only a small city in the middle of nowhere, after all. We can work together and work this out (and I know we can 'cause I see it on SCF all the time).

And with that, I'm hopping in my car and riding down to do my part.

http://criminaljustice.state.ny.us/SomsSUBDirectory/offenderDetails.jsp?offenderid=3374

I have now seen this man at Academy Green Sat and Sun. Posting this here so people can be on the alert

More info on what he looks like, he has no upper front teeth and wears glasses.

He was also hanging with 2 guys, one likes to smoke blunts

Mr. D'Arcy it is funny that you posted that on my post because he is one of the people I am complaining about being drunk in the plaza. I would like to thank you for posting the link to his offender status and making the community aware of who to watch out for. Thanks again.

written 3 days ago .... "There are two issues people are arguing about - one is a quality of life issue. It is illegal to loiter, drink in public, and otherwise do what some of the homeless folks do around Hannafords. They need to be removed. Allowing them to be there for "humanitarian" reasons actually just makes what they do permissable and degrades the area. There's no question about that.

In terms of getting them help - I would encourage all to assist the many organizations working hard to do so: Family of Woodstock, Queens Galley, People's place, etc. Giving people anything on the street just encourages them to stay there. I encourage you to go talk to them and find out what they need. For the most part, these people are there by choice - even though they are not living some glorious life. They need extensive help - and it's not easy. They don't like living with the rules that the help forces on them (no drinking at the Queens Galley - often must attend workshops for housing assistance, etc.) So in the end, helping people with handouts (especially money) just allows them to continue to survive on the streets rather than doing the hardwork required to improve their lives."

once again ... people want this issue resolved but they're not aware of what it takes to resolve it. as i mentioned in a previous post, you can only help those who want to be helped. most of our readers / posters don't know what has already been done to try and help these people. place them in home? simple? no way! they've already been kicked out of most of the shelters / housing available. why? because of their own free will.

so ... now the question is this: you've tried to help person A. person A has gone 'thru the system' ... they have been placed in several homes, been given several chances to 'straighten up,' .... given ssi .... and they STILL refuse the help .... they become disruptive in place after place ... enough to disrupt any given housing ... now they are no longer welcome in any given 'public assistance' housing because of their own actions. NOW what do you do?????

this is the dilemma. person A has chosen their own demise. don't blame the government. you can only help those that want to be helped.

Buford, I went underneath the Chandler Drive bridge looking for homeless veterans to help three days ago. I've also spoken to Herzog's and Hannaford to voice my opinion and concern, and they were nothing but civil.

I said it before. NO ONE'S life aspiration is to sleep under a highway bridge in constant danger and hopelessness. These people should not be treated like feral animals. But then again, no one who shops at the plaza should be subject to this. NO ONE who shops there should (especially with children around) be subject to foul, unruly and drunken behavior. You shouldn't have to prepare to be offended or disgusted, or have your guard up because you need groceries.

Do you have a constructive suggestion or course of action you would like to state? No one is blaming anyone. We need solutions and actions, not futility. You are essentially suggesting we do nothing. That's what got us here. It'll only get worse if we continue that course.

Paul Andrews wrote:

"Buford, I went underneath the Chandler Drive bridge looking for homeless veterans to help three days ago. I've also spoken to Herzog's and Hannaford to voice my opinion and concern, and they were nothing but civil.

I said it before. NO ONE'S life aspiration is to sleep under a highway bridge in constant danger and hopelessness. These people should not be treated like feral animals. But then again, no one who shops at the plaza should be subject to this. NO ONE who shops there should (especially with children around) be subject to foul, unruly and drunken behavior. You shouldn't have to prepare to be offended or disgusted, or have your guard up because you need groceries.

Do you have a constructive suggestion or course of action you would like to state? No one is blaming anyone. We need solutions and actions, not futility. You are essentially suggesting we do nothing. That's what got us here. It'll only get worse if we continue that course."

good morning, paul. i actually couldn't agree with you more. you're post is 110% correct. the owners of he plaza, the jordans, are great people and are very community oriented. they donate a lot to our community. and, of course, they don't want to see what is going on but understand their limitations as well.

i'm sure when we were all kids growing up we didn't have 'dreams' about being addicted to drugs ... living under a bridge .... begging for money .... getting kicked out of every homeless shelter. again, i agree, i don't believe that anybody aspires this at all. and, yes, when shopping, no one should have to see drunk people passed out on a bench or witness people in hannaford trying to shoplift. now, mind you, that it's kind of ironic because most of those who shop lift in hannaford aren't shoplifting 'useful foods.' oh no! they go for the beer, chips, and non perishable stuff that they can sell on the streets for crack. this is fact, paul. look over hannafords security reports on their shoplifting arrests.

do i have a constructive suggestion to resolve this issue? not an immediate one. again, these people have been offered assistance many times and have refused to follow guidelines (like staying sober and attempt to seek employment), and have often been kicked out of every assistant housing available to them. so, my question to you, paul, is this: where do you place people who refuse assistance and have gotten kicked out of very public housing in ulster county? is this a 'crime,' too? should they be arrested for refusing to cooperate with agencies attempting to assist them?

the bottom line is this: calling the police is not going to resolve this issue. as i stated before, the justice system is not about fixing a social issue. and, i agree with you, paul, there needs to be a permanent solution. but what is that solution going to be?

I have a novel idea - why not man up and shop at the Plaza Hannaford's precisely because it is under threat of being surrendered to the trolls and vagrants you see there. The staff are nice people and work hard to make it a pleasant store, and it is. This is how towns, cities, nations and societies go downhill, when those who partake of civil society whine and complain that someone soiled their lawn but then let that keep them off their lawn.

So, next grocery trip, pack up the wife and the reusable bags, head for the Plaza, ignore the folks who spoil your 'upscale' tableau, enjoy the good selection and good prices, and strike a blow for keeping control of OUR city.

THERE'S NO ONE HERE TO DO IT FOR US. AN ENGAGED PUBLIC IS REQUIRED FOR A FREE CIVIL SOCIETY TO WORK AND IS ITS CORNERSTONE. GOVERNMENT AND CIVIC INSTITUTIONS CAN ONLY FACILITATE.

Thanks for listening.

Don:

I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you there. It's NOT a "pleasant store". The first thing I smell when I walk in the door -- every time, day or night, hot or cold weather -- is the putrid smell of beer bottle returns that they've located such that you HAVE to pass them in order to get in the store.

Then, the store itself is consistently *far* more dirty in upkeep than its sister over on Ulster Avenue.

At the end of the day, I'm a capitalist pig, and I patronize the locations that care enough to keep my business. They're the ones who DESERVE my business. The Plaza Hannaford doesn't do nearly enough in that respect - either in terms of its upkeep and the things it can DIRECTLY control, or in terms of pressuring its landlord to take care of the things that THEY can directly control.

Hannaford and the Kingston Plaza itself are money-making enterprises. If people will ford through unpleasantness to shop there, then those institutions aren't given any negative reinforcement to their poor decisions. Why should they bother to clean things up or roust the bums when they realize you'll come shop there anyway? That's time and energy expended with no return-on-investment.

But if they start to realize "dirty store + bums = less profits"... well, that's something they'll notice and pay attention to. Or they'll go out of business, and be well-deserved for doing so.

Buford, Don and Derek, I agree with you both. No one in town has a solution to the homeless problem. And no one runs a business just to watch unruly people chase profits away. A few calls to management should get the ball rolling on this one.

I talked to the manager of AutoZone and asked him why there were never any vagrants near his store. He told me after customers complained en masse and after they clogged his toilet a few times (ewwww), they were banned from the store indefinitely. Can't Hannaford do the same?

the way I see it...the Plaza is a public place,not private property , open to all who want shop or be there regardless of were or how you live. That is what living in America is all about.
If the "bums" are buying beer then they are customers and not loitering. It is not against the law to ask someone for money or a cigarette and you can't get arrested for being in a public place.
If the " snobs" don't like it, stay away! They have the same rights that you do. And who is this self appointed administrator anyway?

and, again paul, (not to disagree with you), but the bottom line is: where do you put them?????? plain and simple!!!!

k: but it IS private property, and any shopkeeper can "reserve the right to refuse service", it happens all the time. And if the landlord (or the tenant) says "You're not allowed to come on our private property any more", then if that person does so again, it's Criminal Trespass, plain and simple, and they get arrested and taken away.

Derek Balling is right. Malls do it all the time

buford,

The purpose of this site is not to solve all the world's intractable problems (like how do we solve homelessness for those who refuse help). The purpose of this site is to constructively deal with the issues we can deal with together as a community.

So please stop your commentary if you don't have constructive solutions.

These people need to be removed from - and prevented from returning to - the plaza. They also need to be removed from under the Chandler Drive bridge and the Kingston Land Trust and surrounding property on the other side. They are harming our community. Period.

With that said IF YOU HAVE A SOLUTION - like what Coppertop suggested (have VA do an intervention), then I applaud that. Otherwise - just asking an unanswerable questions is not helpful.

Thanks.

These bums are the former middle class that is radically shrinking. Because of global economy, we are competing for jobs on the other side of the world, where people are willing to work 10-12 hours a day for a dollar an hour. Sitting around calling other people bums, while all of Kingston's sewer pipe network is beginning to look like third-world countries. It's hopeless.

apparently the property owners has NOT filed any complaints so they are NOT trespassing. If you KNOW that they are doing something illegal then focus on that and quit trying to violate the civil rights of people you don't like!!

Allright, civil rights!!! Stax music to me. "First they came for the disabled, and nobody said anything about it. then they came for the gypsies, and nobody said anything about it. Then they came, etc. etc. etc., for you, and there was nobody left to say anything about it."

vad wrote: "buford,

The purpose of this site is not to solve all the world's intractable problems (like how do we solve homelessness for those who refuse help). The purpose of this site is to constructively deal with the issues we can deal with together as a community.

So please stop your commentary if you don't have constructive solutions.

These people need to be removed from - and prevented from returning to - the plaza. They also need to be removed from under the Chandler Drive bridge and the Kingston Land Trust and surrounding property on the other side. They are harming our community. Period.

With that said IF YOU HAVE A SOLUTION - like what Coppertop suggested (have VA do an intervention), then I applaud that. Otherwise - just asking an unanswerable questions is not helpful.

Thanks."

you know, vad, i guess if i had as many civic points as you, then i might be as intelligent as you!!

i enjoyed your comment .. "So please stop your commentary if you don't have constructive solutions." i'm sorry ... and your solution was what, einstein???? i certainly did NOT see a constructive solution in your post ... but i guess thats ok since you have so many civic points.

and, of course, your other intellectual comment "These people need to be removed from - and prevented from returning to - the plaza." another question, einstein, is where would you remove them to? your utmost constructive solution was what?? i'm sorry ... i must have missed that in your post. maybe kirby accidentally deleted it! (lol!!)

so, if i were you, vad, i would practice what you preach. as you stated and directed towards me "With that said IF YOU HAVE A SOLUTION - like what Coppertop suggested (have VA do an intervention), then I applaud that. Otherwise - just asking an unanswerable questions is not helpful." and, as i pointed out before, your solution was what??? thats what i thought.

i'm looking forward to actually seeing your solutions. because, if you don't HAVE A SOLUTION, then i guess i won't see you posting anything because "just asking an unanswerable question is not helpful!" "So please stop your commentary if you don't have constructive solutions."

have a nice day, vad! see you at the clinton wedding! i hear your bums are going to be waiters! :)

has the department of veterans affairs been notified?

or is this just a discussion board for people that choose to disagree?

regardless of our opinions, we need to realize that those being spoken ill of are human beings. fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons and daughters.

for the sake of maturity and respect,
let us cease the ill will and name calling.

let us focus on the issue.

those that are veterans deserve what they are entitled to, plain and simple.

the owners of the property, likewise, need to respect the community and enforce loitering laws.

the land trust needs to be secured.

vagrant "tent" cities and hangouts cannot be tolerated.

where they go, is not the concern.

the fact that they are forced to move on and vacate their current "begging grounds" needs to be addressed post haste.

the right of the few do not supersede the rights of the community.
the collective have the right to have their land and peace.

superseding security and safety just because you dont know where to send the problem is ludicrous.

give us our plaza.
give us our land trust.
take care of the veterans.
the rest, simple....vacate.
sack up. man up.

copper wrote:
"vagrant "tent" cities and hangouts cannot be tolerated.

where they go, is not the concern."

but, copp, where they go is the very reason for this discussion!!! where they go is still going to be a concern. and constantly moving them is NOT the solution.

basically, social services needs to find housing for these people. this is their job. not the police or courts. but they need to be placed other than academy green or the plaza.

buford.....
You are wrong! That is not the "very reason" for this discussion. Scroll to the top and take a look at the original complaint. No where in that complaint is it looking for resolution to what is troubling our nation, just the Plaza, Hannaford specifically. If you would like, start a new thread, write your Congressman, lobby for legislation, or open your home and give them a clean place to sleep. If not, let's stay on topic...I'd like to shop there with my son without being accosted by someone. I will drive across town and patronize another grocery store just for the simple fact that if Hannaford cannot take care of this store, why give my $ to Hannford at another location? Does that make sense?! Plus, the Hannaford Plaza needs a good bath, I'm not sure who thinks that that store is clean, but I'd hate to see their idea of dirty!

k wrote: "Scroll to the top and take a look at the original complaint. No where in that complaint is it looking for resolution to what is troubling our nation, just the Plaza."

i don't know, k, but my eyes see at the very tippy top "(x number) of people want this fixed." now, i'm no rocket scientist, but the words 'want this fixed' seems to be synonymous with 'looking for a resolution.' so, if i guess maybe we ought to rename this whole website from 'seeclickfix' to 'seeclickcomplainbecausewerenotlookingforresolution.' would that work for you, k?

Most of the comments are here are to point - and the point is the problem regard HANNAFORDS AND THE UPTOWN PLAZA.

Buford - If you want to create a topic and call it "solve the homeless problem in Kingston" - go for it. The problem here is that there are people loitering and harrassing the patrons of the Hannaford. They are signifcantly detracting from the desirability of people visiting this Hannafords (which means they put less money into maintaining it - less quality vegetables, etc, etc). That is the solvable problem.

SOLUTION - The solution I support - all of which has already been suggested (but here they are for your benefit) - is to encourage Hannafords to prevent them from loitering. Hannafords should post no loitering signs, disallow smoking under the covered walkway (which is actually illegal under state law unless all four sides are open) - by posting no smoking signs, pipe in some classical music and have there staff go through an encourage loiterers to move on. Call the police when there are problems. In addition, perhaps some social workers - especially from the VA - can occasionally visit the area and see if they can help anyone.

WE need to ALL complain to Hannaford to do these things, speak up when we have been harrassed - and call the police.

what happened to the city's suit over welfare funding with the county? The county wants to use a county organization with county money for county residents at a commons in Woodstuck, but not Kingstown. RIPCO should open up its unfinished barroom to the bums.

The big problem is that these folks are allowed to live under the bridge behind the plaza wall. Well, maybe not "allowed", but everyone seems to look the other way. Move them out of there to a shelter of some sort, and the wall behind the plaza could be turned into a public mural space for an "Art Walk" of sorts. This would make great use of the wall, clean up the graffiti, and bring an artistic attraction to the plaza itself. There is a very nice footpath that runs along the creek, but who want s to stroll along it when you have to watch for passed out bums, human feces, and other unmentionable things going on.

3 months of silence on this issue. Have any of the Hannaford shoppers seen an improvement?

I do see Hannaford making some effort - but the staff often ignores it. Winter time results is less of a problem because it is cold out. We'll see more next year.

Everyone that uses this Hannaford needs to keep on it.

I've seen a huge improvement. I stopped shopping there!

Has the situation improved now that Hannaford is not open 24/7?

Good Afternoon,

SeeClickFix would like to emphasize the importance of respect when posting comments and issues. While we definitely encourage dialogue among users, we think it's important to emphasize constructive conversation that focuses on the identification, prioritization, and ultimate resolution of issues. Let's move the conversation forward in a respectful manner & let's steer away from unconstructive comments and personal attacks (which may be subject to removal in the future). As always, please don't hesitate to email contact@seeclickfix.com with any concerns, questions, or suggestions.

Regards,

Kevin
Community Manager
SeeClickFix

I'd like to point out that Supreme78ism's comment of making the place under the bridge less desirable is possible with the potential for turning the railroad into a rail trail. Then it would be paved, see much more regular use, and discourage people from living under there (attracting more attention, police patrols, etc - so that it is not as a attractive a place for people to gather.

What do you think?

I just wanted to add something. I ride the buses out of the Plaza and get picked up in front of Hannaford's. Two weeks ago when I arrived at the benches in front of Hannaford's, someone had defecated on the bench. Yes. A big pile of poo. The entire area reeks of urine because the bums just lay there and urinate on themselves. I did not have time to run into Hannaford's to let them know about the poo on the bench, but when I got to work I emailed a note to Hannaford's Corporate. Much to my surprise, they turned the tables on me and got nasty and accusatory with me. I was shocked and appalled that as a customer complaining about urine soaked sidewalks on their property and other nasty things, that I was attacked for complaining. They basically told me that I expected too much from them. Don't get me wrong. I know they are in a tough situation, but seriously, is it that difficult to hose the sidewalks down with disinfectant once a day rather than having your customers traipse through urine and other disgusting human waste and then walk into your store which sells FOOD? It's a complicated issue and both the city and Hannaford needs to come to some sort of resolution. If it means having guards there all night and day running these people off....

Hi Julie - this is your next door neighbor. I remember the FB post. Give us the contact information for who you contacted. If they hear from a few other people, perhaps they will take action.

It was the corporate office. I will look it up later tonight or tomorrow and post it.

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Homelessness SUCKS. Bum is an insult.
There are resources for them, but they are either mentally ill, have a social disease or otherwise don't have enough funds for whatever it is that gives them their own "creature comforts". If you don't want to give them money, don't. If they are disruptive in front of the store, tell the manager. I was asked for change by someone who was very polite and thanked me even though I didn't give him change. How does one of these reporters know there was a fight in an encampment behind the plaza? The police and EMS deal with street nonsense all the time. (I used to work EMS). It's almost like job security. Don't worry about them. Worry that the homeless population is increasing here, and the sight of more pan-handlers is disturbing and a symptom that times are tough for a lot of folks out there, and that you could be just a paycheck away...

It's also a bus terminal for two bus lines. If there is a problem with urine or feces on or around the benches, that is a Dept Of Health issue. Call the DOH, and then call UCAT and Citibus and tell them you called the DOH. See how quickly it gets cleaned up.

The core was blocked due to flags - and the discussion has ceased. If you are concerned about problems at the Kingston Plaza, start a new issue and be civil.