Is a slow rolling stop not illegal just wondering I thought it was

I rarely turn onto Belvedere coming from that direction, but when I do I usually either turn by Chili's and cut through the Walmart parking lot or go past the intersection and turn behind the bank and cut through the parking lot of that little shopping center. It's a hassle, but better than one of those ridiculous tickets. I too have seen how many times it flashes, and I just don't trust the local government enough to take that chance.

Once I was "flashed" at the red light at Nashville Pike and Maple Street when I came to a complete stop with my tires at least a full 3 feet before the white stripe. I waited until the light turned green before turning, as I didn't want to give the police ANY information or evidence that could be used against me. I just remember sitting there wondering why it would take a picture without even actually approaching the line, much less crossing or failing to stop.

Aren't there sensors? Aren't the cameras programmed? Why are they programmed to take pictures of cars that stop well short of the white line?

That was a few months ago, and I haven't received a ticket yet, so I guess I won't be getting one. But it's certainly taken an emotional toll on me, as I've been "accused" of breaking the law in the sense that the government has gathered evidence against me, and I know I have no tangible evidence in my favor.

Danny,

I know you say "I too have seen how many times it flashes, and I just don't trust the local government enough to take that chance", but the amazing fact is that the cameras are owned, maintained, and serviced by the company [American Traffic Solutions, Inc. (ATS)] that has the contract with Gallatin ATS, a private contractor, receives between 60 to 64% of evry dollar of revenue generated by fines and court costs for each and every instance they deem a violation and forward to the single police officer in Gallatin who reviews the tape provided by ATS, prints off a citation, and mails it to the owner of the vehicle that ran the light. By all accounts, the revenue from these fines is enormous. I have heard that the number of citations issued is starting to decline, but in 2007, the City of Gallatin issued almost 20,000 citations, a number equal to more than half of Gallatin’s population. That is over a million bucks from four, yes four cameras.

As I said, one of the most alarming aspects of this revenue generation is where the money goes. The camera company (ATS) entered into an agreement with the city of Gallatin to install the cameras and then sit back and let the City do the dirty work. After collecting the fines from unsuspecting drivers, Gallatin remits almost 64 percent of the money to the PRIVATE CONTRACTOR. Thus, most of the $50 fine goes to the camera company. The remaining $18.50 goes to the city's general fund, not the police department who is in charge of public safety.

You have to understand that when a private company obtains its entire profit from fines collected through traffic violation enforcement, many serious problems can arise. I am not saying that anyone is falsifying data, but when the revenue generated is this substantial for a system that does not cost that much to operate, the strategy to install the cameras to act like cash registers rather than other methodologies to ensure the safety of the public can become all too obvious.

That is my point. I am not condoning people that run red lights, it is dangerous and life threatening. I am complaining about cameras placed in Gallatin that are obviously positioned to catch drivers making a slow, rolling right on red when they should have a green arrow if the traffic engineering was correct. You will find many intersections in Gallatin with the same traffic pattern that use a green arrow for the right turn when the perpendicular traffic is turning left. Check the intersections in Gallatin that have red light cameras – especially the Belvedere Dr. at Gallatin Rd. and Maple St. at Gallatin Rd. Red light camera for the right turn? – YES. Green arrow for the right turn when no traffic can possible approach? – NO

The city (or their private contractor/consultant)is manipulating the traffic system to unfairly increase fines and revenue

Now that the City of Gallatin says that the number of citations issued for these red light cameras is declining, the City and the Private Contractor (ATS) are losing their cash cow. Never fear, I hear that Gallatin is proposing red light cameras at two new intersections. In these hard times does the City of Gallatin have the money to do this? Never fear, the private contractor (ATS) does not want to lose their cash register either.

From ATS' own website (www.atsol.com): Revenue Advancing™, an innovative program offered by the Public Finance Solutions Department of ATS, provides a way for communities to convert their past-due receivables into cash, services or equipment before the receivables are collected. The cash then can be added to the general fund or converted into additional direct services by the municipality, including red-light or speed enforcement programs (that’s red light cameras to you and me) [comment added by me for emphasis], parking meters or other equipment. From parking, court fees, fines, ordinance violations, judgments, photo enforcement and other public safety related collections, ATS Public Finance Solutions convert a community’s receivables into a cash advance while letting the municipality share in the upside of future collections.

Yes they did! The private contractor (ATS) actually said “SHARE IN THE UPSIDE OF FUTURE COLLECTIONS”. Did they mention the safety of the public for the municipality? – NO. Did they reference the cash register? – YES

So everyone understands, “Revenue Advancing™” or a “cash advance” is a loan. A loan from a private contractor to a municipal government so that the private contractor can be awarded an extremely profitable contract by that same municipal government? Really?? Does that smell funny to you? That suspiciously sounds like an offer of a quasi-legal bribe or kickback. What do you think? If I did that in my line of business, I would be subject to criminal penalties and incarceration.

Better keep a watch on the relationship between the City of Gallatin and ATS. Beware the intentions of this private contractor.

The other cameras are in locations in which are setup to make money as well. Coming off of Maple street to turn right is the worse. The line to stop at is equal to the other lines, so if you are sitting in a small car, you can't see to turn right on red, in which the last time I looked you could. If you pull up enough to see you get flashed, so essentially you have to wait until its all green or a green arrow, causing traffic to build up. Slight changes can fix this and don't act like you don't have the money now to make that change, you have made enough to have it done!!!

Gallatin PD are the worst for profiling cars, harrassing people in there cars that are not even moving, not too mention the BS Traffic cameras, stay out of Gallatin if at all possible!!

The solution to this is to simply STOP at the red light before turning.

Carrots, its not as simple as stopping at a red light as you have to come to a stop before turning right anyway. Its a matter of where the lines are located. You look at lines in other places in other cities where there is 3 lanes pulling out and you will see that most turning right have a stop line a little futher up so that you can see past\over cars to your left so that you can turn right. As a rule of the road, you can turn right on red unless posted so here with the view obstructed, unless you pull forward you can come to a stop before turning but at this point, its too late!!! Money to the company, money to the city, your busted...You can sit and wait until the light turns green, and most people do, but by that time, too late, the city owns your cash. Its a cash cow. I would like to see the study of accidents based on people turning right before the cameras istalled versus accidents after the cameras installed. Any percentage drop is great, but insurance rates as a whole haven't went down because of it, fatalities probably haven't went down because of them, the only thing going up is the money coming in...

Exactly. Carrots, you miss the point of this discussion. If you had read all the posts you would understand that it is not about condoning drivers running red lights or not coming to a complete stop on red. It is about what appears to be an obvious manipulation of the situation by either the City of Gallatin, their Private Contractor who receives the majority of the revenue from the citations, or both. The primary question is why the City has not installed a green arrow for a right turn at these specific lights.

I didn't receive any type of traffic citation of any type nor was I stopped until I moved to Gallatin three years ago...in that period of time, I have been pulled over for driving less than one hundred yards in my car without my seatbelt, given a ticket for easing through a red light when I was nearly hit three times because I had screeched to a stop in fear of getting a ticket and went halfway out, and got a ticket anyway, and once for a turn signal lense on the front of my vehicle being broke...was also told by an officer that I had parked improperly at the library for crying out loud...none of these stops were even necessary...I see GPD with people pulled over all the time, and my sister had to come to Gallatin the other day and got a stupid ticket at the Maplel Street light after going to the doctor...now she has to pay $50 she doesn't have because she just wasn't that familiar with Gallatin's traffic lights...the whole city of Gallatin is incompetent, from Public Works and Public Utilities to the Police Chief and the Mayor..no wonder I hear alot of people say they only come to Gallatin when they have to..

Makes for a great city to live in.

Now that the City of Gallatin says that the number of citations issued for these red light cameras is declining, the City and the Private Contractor (ATS) are losing their cash cow. Never fear, I hear that Gallatin is proposing red light cameras at two new intersections. In these hard times does the City of Gallatin have the money to do this? Never fear, the private contractor (ATS) does not want to lose their cash register either.

From ATS' own website (www.atsol.com): Revenue Advancing™, an innovative program offered by the Public Finance Solutions Department of ATS, provides a way for communities to convert their past-due receivables into cash, services or equipment before the receivables are collected. The cash then can be added to the general fund or converted into additional direct services by the municipality, including red-light or speed enforcement programs (that’s red light cameras to you and me) [comment added by me for emphasis], parking meters or other equipment. From parking, court fees, fines, ordinance violations, judgments, photo enforcement and other public safety related collections, ATS Public Finance Solutions convert a community’s receivables into a cash advance while letting the municipality share in the upside of future collections.

Yes they did! The private contractor (ATS) actually said “SHARE IN THE UPSIDE OF FUTURE COLLECTIONS”. Did they mention the safety of the public for the municipality? – NO. Did they reference the cash register? – YES

So everyone understands, “Revenue Advancing™” or a “cash advance” is a loan. A loan from a private contractor to a municipal government so that the private contractor can be awarded an extremely profitable contract by that same municipal government? Really?? Does that smell funny to you? That suspiciously sounds like an offer of a quasi-legal bribe or kickback. What do you think? If I did that in my line of business, I would be subject to criminal penalties and incarceration.

Better keep a watch on the relationship between the City of Gallatin and ATS. Beware the intentions of this private contractor.

.

Danny,

I know you say "I too have seen how many times it flashes, and I just don't trust the local government enough to take that chance", but the amazing fact is that the cameras are owned, maintained, and serviced by the company [American Traffic Solutions, Inc. (ATS)] that has the contract with Gallatin ATS, a private contractor, receives between 60 to 64% of every dollar of revenue generated by fines and court costs for each and every instance they deem a violation and forward to the single police officer in Gallatin who reviews the tape provided by ATS, prints off a citation, and mails it to the owner of the vehicle that ran the light. By all accounts, the revenue from these fines is enormous. I have heard that the number of citations issued is starting to decline, but in 2007, the City of Gallatin issued almost 20,000 citations, a number equal to more than half of Gallatin’s population. That is over a million bucks from four, yes four cameras.

As I said, one of the most alarming aspects of this revenue generation is where the money goes. The camera company (ATS) entered into an agreement with the city of Gallatin to install the cameras and then sit back and let the City do the dirty work. After collecting the fines from unsuspecting drivers, Gallatin remits almost 64 percent of the money to the PRIVATE CONTRACTOR. Thus, most of the $50 fine goes to the camera company. The remaining $18.50 goes to the city's general fund, not the police department who is in charge of public safety.

You have to understand that when a private company obtains its entire profit from fines collected through traffic violation enforcement, many serious problems can arise. I am not saying that anyone is falsifying data, but when the revenue generated is this substantial for a system that does not cost that much to operate, the strategy to install the cameras to act like cash registers rather than other methodologies to ensure the safety of the public can become all too obvious.

That is my point. I am not condoning people that run red lights, it is dangerous and life threatening. I am complaining about cameras placed in Gallatin that are obviously positioned to catch drivers making a slow, rolling right on red when they should have a green arrow if the traffic engineering was correct. You will find many intersections in Gallatin with the same traffic pattern that use a green arrow for the right turn when the perpendicular traffic is turning left. Check the intersections in Gallatin that have red light cameras – especially the Belvedere Dr. at Gallatin Rd. and Maple St. at Gallatin Rd. Red light camera for the right turn? – YES. Green arrow for the right turn when no traffic can possible approach? – NO

The city (or their private contractor/consultant)is manipulating the traffic system to unfairly increase fines and revenue

.

I used to take ny business to Gallatin, well no longer! I haven't been to Gallatin in two years. I work on the road so I put 40,000+ miles on my car in a year. So, I go to surrounding cities like Hendersonville where I don't have to mess with red light cameras. I absolutely despise what Gallatin has turned the city into. The set up us beyond flawed and there is NO concern for drivers safety. So, Gallatin you lost business. Im sure it doesn't matter to the city that businesses are pulling out cause the people are FED UP!

Two days ago I was approaching the light in the go straight lane when a car on my right turned and activated the strobe. It was near dusk and my eyes were accustomed to the dim light. The strobe blinded me for a second. With impaired vision I misjudged the distance to the stopped car in front of me. I made the stop without incident but was very angry that this danger was sponsored by a greedy and thoughtless government. Get rid of these mindless robots that present a real danger.

Two days ago I was approaching the light in the go straight lane when a car on my right turned and activated the strobe. It was near dusk and my eyes were accustomed to the dim light. The strobe blinded me for a second. With impaired vision I misjudged the distance to the stopped car in front of me. I made the stop without incident but was very angry that this danger was sponsored by a greedy and thoughtless government. Get rid of these mindless robots that present a real danger.

Just paid my fifty dollar fine,going to Church,,109 bypass light,,my first traffic ticket in 50 years,For years have gone to Gallatin for Church and lunch,,From now on will keep our money in Mt.Juliet,My daughter is a safe driver also,got one in the same month,same light,,,,Some camera lights have been caught where they change the yellow light timing to a few seconds shorter,,,catching all they want with their evil cameras.

Now my wife has received a ticket same light,,we now have two tickets in one month,guess that's an omen to stay out of Gallatin.

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