This is sinking around the filler dirt and cement. Science explains that water will find its way out and this hole is expanding around the temporary repairs. This water is not draining properly. The springs underneath Needs to be mentored.

Thank you for submitting this report. It has been forwarded to Highway for investigation.

Jane Walker - Citizens Affairs Specialist assigned this issue to Barry Bunker - Public Works

WE WILL CHECK

This issue has been going on since 2015 and the county is saying that it the responsibility of the home owners while the Harford County Website differs.

NOT A COUNTY PROBLEM AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED__MBMCKAY__02/24/2020
WENT OUT AND CHECKED COMPLAINT. IT ALL BELONGS TO THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION. THE ONE BETWEEN THE HOUSES IS A PROBLEM FROM LONG AGO AND THE HAVE BEEN TOLD SEVERAL TIMES THE LINE BELONGS TO THE ASSOCIATIONBECAUSE IT COMES FROM BEHIND THE HOMES FROM A DEAD BOX. THE PROBLEMS IN THE SEDIMENT POND ALSO BELONG TO THE ASSOCIATION.__MBMCKAY__01/27/2020

Sinkhole continues to reopen every 7-8 weeks on Shenandoah. Until it stops reopening for an entire year this should not be closed. Quick fixes never work! Home Owners Association is not responsible for this one as Highways has continued to repair this.

Water comes from street as when you pulled the Water sewer from street the catcher was full of water.

MRA is developing the new development on Rt. 152 and this is how they left our community and yet Harford County continue to give them permits. Let’s see what issues come from this......

NOT A COUNTY PROBLEM AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED__MBMCKAY__02/24/2020
WENT OUT AND CHECKED COMPLAINT. IT ALL BELONGS TO THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION. THE ONE BETWEEN THE HOUSES IS A PROBLEM FROM LONG AGO AND THE HAVE BEEN TOLD SEVERAL TIMES THE LINE BELONGS TO THE ASSOCIATIONBECAUSE IT COMES FROM BEHIND THE HOMES FROM A DEAD BOX. THE PROBLEMS IN THE SEDIMENT POND ALSO BELONG TO THE ASSOCIATION.__MBMCKAY__01/27/2020

NOT A COUNTY PROBLEM AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED__MBMCKAY__02/24/2020
WENT OUT AND CHECKED COMPLAINT. IT ALL BELONGS TO THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION. THE ONE BETWEEN THE HOUSES IS A PROBLEM FROM LONG AGO AND THE HAVE BEEN TOLD SEVERAL TIMES THE LINE BELONGS TO THE ASSOCIATIONBECAUSE IT COMES FROM BEHIND THE HOMES FROM A DEAD BOX. THE PROBLEMS IN THE SEDIMENT POND ALSO BELONG TO THE ASSOCIATION.__MBMCKAY__01/27/2020

Cut and paste as many times as you need. It doesn’t change the facts.

Please contact your Homeowner's Association to resolve this issue.

Thank you for contacting our Division of Citizens Affairs using our “You Click We Fix” application. We hope that our staff has been able to assist you in a positive manner. Constituent service and responsiveness to your needs are most important to this Administration, below is a link for Customer Service Survey and we encourage all of our citizens to participate. If we may ever be of further assistance to you on this or any other matter, please do not hesitate to contact us.

http://www.harfordcountymd.gov/FormCenter/Citizen-Affairs-57/Customer-Service-Survey-166

No I will not be contacted HOA. This particular issue is not as Highways has admitted and continues to repair. I am not referencing the other issues in the back. The one on Shenandoah was just repaired 5 weeks ago by Highways. Case and point of why I am requesting this remains open.

The area in question is considered Road Verge which I was told is the responsibility of Harford County. This is a safety issue as the hole continues to reopen. It would be simple enough for Harford County to open the area and recompact it like they had to do for Shenandoah Ct. In the recent past, that was the plan but somehow the County Roads Organization wants to wash their hands at the issue because their more than a dozen attempts at fixing it has failed. It is true that the sewer system was checked and found to be tight, but the issue is still here. The HOA and County just point fingers at each other but the safety issue is still there. I assume once a senior neighbor or child is hurt, someone will take responsibility in court. Barry Bunker...just reposting the comment from Matt McKay does not make this problem go away!

Fact. Rogers Ford was developed on top of natural springs (Foster Branch Stream)

Fact. Home Owners Association Was MRAPMI until July 2018. Morris Ritchie Associates Property Management

Fact. Sinkhole developed in 2017.

Fact. Harford County wants Home Owners Association to pay for what the developers either one, didn’t do properly or Two, refuse to do using their finances.

Fact. You all have continued to close this case without cause or clear understanding of how it effects the community.

Facts matter. Passing the buck never has.

Update:
Harford County DPW Highway Engineering has been investigating the cause of the sink holes between the road and sidewalk at the properties located at 903 & 905 Shenandoah Court. As a part of this investigation we have completed both visual and video inspections of the storm drain pipe (which runs beneath the sidewalk) and the storm drain manhole (located in the sidewalk) and have concluded the storm drain system is functioning as it should with no damage or leak in the system that could cause the sink hole in that area. Furthermore, the sink hole has been filled and there are no sink holes at the moment. No further action is to be taken at this time. We will continue to monitor the area to see if further sink holes develop.

Let me know if you need anything further.

Thanks,
Glen

This was stated a year ago by Matt McKay and yet Highways has to repair it. Whatever the cause is has not been resolved and only monitored.

As stated, this continues to reopen dispute the patchwork. I recognized MRA was not acknowledged. I have never dealt with you Glen as long as I have been complaining about this issue. Either way this is not a closed issue. Please stop closing this.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/harford/aegis/cng-ag-foster-branch-development-0809-20190808-fr2c6qbuyrcr7ntrnh2crlzswi-story.html

This is what I am referencing when I speak of MRA.

Engineering may not be the issue but when this community was developed something wasn’t done correctly. The link above speaks more on the issue I have with Joppa.

Karen Brooks use to work for MRAPMI and now she doesn’t. She is complaining in this article about MRA and she lives on Dembytown. I have multiple emails when she worked for them about the water that was going from under the street. Someone needs to find out why MRA develops leave water damage for others to deal with and these repairs are expensive and leaving New Home Owners in Jeopardy.

I understand Crouse is developing it but the relationships run along the same line.

The hole is back and this is on the Road Verge area which the County admits this area is their responsibility. This is a SAFETY concern.

This has been forwarded to Highway's engineering department for further investigation.

Thank you for contacting our Division of Citizens Affairs using our “You Click We Fix” application. We hope that our staff has been able to assist you in a positive manner. Constituent service and responsiveness to your needs are most important to this Administration, below is a link for Customer Service Survey and we encourage all of our citizens to participate. If we may ever be of further assistance to you on this or any other matter, please do not hesitate to contact us.

http://www.harfordcountymd.gov/FormCenter/Citizen-Affairs-57/Customer-Service-Survey-166

When you all came out in October, you dumped rocks which made the hole sink quicker. The had sunk and is under the sidewalk level. I thought you all were going to monitor so I didn’t send a request. Of course this shouldn’t be closed as the sink hole continues to SINK!

Okay and thank you.

Update:
There was a meeting with the Engineers, HOA and Homeowners last year. This is not a county issue. The pipes carry water from the back yard to the road which makes this an HOA or homeowner issue.

Not this issue. You are referencing Roger Ford. Shenandoah is a county issue. This water is not from the back as there is no ground grading to allow such drainage. This is next to the Harford County drain. This is where it started.

Also, Mr. Ferrell has county acknowledgement of this issue. As he states back in October.
Anyway, thank you Kristina! My issue is not with you or any county employee but this has to be fixed and not by us new homeowners.

There is a drain in your back yard that brings water from your back yard out to the street and dumps into the county drain the sink hole is over the pipe that comes from your back yard

It's not in my backyard as I live on the other side of the street. I just know it continues to reopen. The developers along with Harford County approval put those drains in before the homeowners moved in. Who shall I have the home owners contact Monday? Morris Ritchie & Associates or Harford County Permit office?

Thank you again Barry. You have dealt with me the most along with Matt. I will give instruction to the homeowners effected over the weekend. No need to respond to my last question. Enjoy the weekend.

So I am on the side of the street with the sink hole. True, the pipes carry water from the back water collection point to the County Storm Drain. The County has inspected that connection and has concluded that there is no leak in the Storm Drain or the pipe coming from my back yard. There are 2 sink holes...1 on both sides of the sidewalk. The sink hole on the Road Verge area continues to reopen and again is Not Safe. The County has expended many hours on Shenandoah Ct and on this particular Sink Hole. Harford County Roads planned to dig up the area and apply the same fix that was required for Shenandoah Ct. The County Engineers has identified an issue to be with the amount of Clay that is surrounding the Storm Drain System in that area. It is time for Harford County to accept responsibility for your area and dig up the area and apply a permanent fix before someone, old or young, breaks a leg or worse. Please pass this up to the highest level possible because everyone so far is not doing the right thing here. I am a 100% disabled Vet and thought I moved into a County that does the right thing for the community residents. Please prove to me that I made the right decision! Don't just keep closing this Safety Issue!

Highway Engineering will investigate.

Update:
DPW has visited the site, has observed the hole adjacent to the sidewalk, and will fill/make the necessary repairs to this hole. As previously indicated DPW has investigated to see if these sink holes are being caused by the failure in the storm drain system maintained by the Harford County. As part of the investigation we have performed both visual and video camera inspections for any potential damage or fault. We learned that the storm drain system is functioning as it should and found no damage or leak in the system that could cause sink holes in this area. DPW has also performed a video inspection of the sanitary sewer main within the roadway and likewise found that the sewer system is functioning properly. As a result of these investigations we have determined that the Harford County infrastructure is sound and not a cause of the sink holes in this area. We will continue to monitor this area to see if any more sink holes develop.

Thank you,
Glen

Glen Hebel, P.E.
Chief Engineer, Division of Highways Engineering
Harford County Department of Public Works
212 South Bond St.
Bel Air, MD 21014
(410) 638-3509 x 1344

Thank you for contacting our Division of Citizens Affairs using our “You Click We Fix” application. We hope that our staff has been able to assist you in a positive manner. Constituent service and responsiveness to your needs are most important to this Administration, below is a link for Customer Service Survey and we encourage all of our citizens to participate. If we may ever be of further assistance to you on this or any other matter, please do not hesitate to contact us.

http://www.harfordcountymd.gov/FormCenter/Citizen-Affairs-57/Customer-Service-Survey-166

If you are monitoring this, why are you closing it? I’m just trying to get an understanding for how to proceed.

Just want to leave a follow-on comment. When the workers delivered the "large rock" filled dirt via a front end loader that they filled the open hole with, the weight of the dirt and the equipment actually sunk the area prior to where the hole was open (please bring out clean top soil to repair).

Glen, not sure why everyone seems to be focused on what isn't causing the sink holes on the area that is the responsibility of Harford County instead of trying to figure out what is the problem and finding a fix. Can someone explain this to me? And the sink hole continues to occur and has for approx. 6 years now. Again, I have asked that this issue is raised to the next higher level of supervision. Has that happened?

I received an update from this website and apparently there is another sinkhole that developed on Rogers Ford toward the end of the street. This occurred over the summer and the same patchwork was done. The resident seems to be questioning the same issues. We had two different builders so I wondering why we are experiencing the same issues.

The retention pond has big really big sinkholes still open. This was the reason for my original request. I can’t imagine these are HOA issues. How does sinkholes develop within a 5-6 year span?

As homeowners we are being told by Harford County to pay for repairs to drainage systems that were installed by Dixie and MRA. It’s confusing how this falls on us and not them. Explaining the engineering system is not explaining the failure of the drainage system installed by our developers and their selected contractors.

Who should I be going to for these complaints? Harford County Inspections or Harford County Developement and Planning? One is these entities have approved the this and it is failing.

This are honest questions that I have yet to get an honest answer to. It’s obvious your department most not take care of this but they keep dispatching you. Is there another website for Harford County Government that cater to Homeowner issues with the develop issues. Especially since that said developer is builder another development that will cause more water to drain in this direction.

Thank you for all of the time you have taken to deal with this large investment we all have at stake.

See Click Fix is not a Service Request. The Service Request is issued in the Department of Public Works- Highways division. Your Service Request is being monitored in that division.

If someone could answer the other questions Please. I’ve been told this is the website to report road and drainage system problems. We have a drainage issues that falls on those who developed this community. If our issue was isolated than there wouldn’t be multiple complaints. Once again thank you.

Thank you for submitting this report. It has been forwarded to the appropriate department for investigation.

Good Morning Mr. Walsh,

As I said Friday, I appreciate your call to follow-up on the matter but I must say for Harford County to summarize a safety issue with only listing what is not causing the issue and to say you will continue to follow up to see if the Sink Hole develops again, after over 5 years of re-occurring, falls very short of a sufficient course of action. Please take note that I am giving notice that I will take no responsibility to continue to monitor the sink hole for Harford County nor will I take responsibility for any injury caused by the sink hole on the area between the side walk between 903 and 905 Shenandoah Ct as I have given 5 – 6 years of continued monitoring and notification of this Safety issue. This issue began when Harford County repaired Shenandoah Ct, which I believe impacted the natural underground water flow. Additionally, the sidewalk around the man-hole cover has cracked/broken again because the ground has sunk under the concrete. I think we all previously agreed that the concrete around the Man Hole is the responsibility of Harford County.

(I will post this on the seeclickfix site for a matter of record)

Steven Ferrell
903 Shenandoah Ct.
Joppa, MD 21085
618-593-2426

Mr Ferrell,
As we discussed last Friday, the current County position related to the sinkholes is outlined by Mr Hebel’s 3/16/2021 post on the seeclickfix site, (see below).

DPW has visited the site, has observed the hole adjacent to the sidewalk, and will fill/make the necessary repairs to this hole. As previously indicated DPW has investigated to see if these sink holes are being caused by the failure in the storm drain system maintained by the Harford County. As part of the investigation we have performed both visual and video camera inspections for any potential damage or fault. We learned that the storm drain system is functioning as it should and found no damage or leak in the system that could cause sink holes in this area. DPW has also performed a video inspection of the sanitary sewer main within the roadway and likewise found that the sewer system is functioning properly. As a result of these investigations we have determined that the Harford County infrastructure is sound and not a cause of the sink holes in this area. We will continue to monitor this area to see if any more sink holes develop.

Thank you,
Glen

Glen Hebel, P.E.
Chief Engineer, Division of Highways Engineering
Harford County Department of Public Works
212 South Bond St.
Bel Air, MD 21014
(410) 638-3509 x 1344

And as we discussed, issues on private property should be addressed by the homeowner and issues on HOA property should be addressed by the HOA.

Thanks,
Steve

To not be coy, Mr. Ferrell's point was that the Drainage System for Roger Ford is failing, has failed, continues to fail. DPW may not be the correct department for these issues and we have asked multiple times what County or entity should be correcting this problem since you all will NOT make Morris Ritchie and Associates, Bob Ward Homes or Ryan Homes do so.

To be clear, if we were here for 15 plus years than maybe we could understand the shared responsibility BUT the sinkholes started within the 2 years we lived here.

The ground around us is crumbling and the only response we continue to be given is that DPW has visually agreed it is not the pipes. These are natural Springs, Streams and waterways that flow around those pipes. Engineering can fail if the piping is not directed in the corrected path. Your machines just show that water isn't coming in NOT that it is pushing the water the correct direction.

As Mr. Ferrell states, Harford County had Dixie run pipes vertical up Shenandoah Court so that their last connecting point was where the sink hole has developed. It was in the middle of the street but the way the road is graded, the water flows back to that sewer. This was done twice as the first time was a complete failure.

429 Rogers Ford has the exact problems. Ryan Homes was there builder and they had different contractors to install their plumbing than Bob Ward did for us. As of now Harford County tells us that we should be paying for the repairs. Barry stated the same reasoning to 429 Rogers Ford residence why Harford County is not responsible. That statements is, "There is a drain in your back yard that brings water from your back yard out to the street and dumps into the county drain the sink hole is over the pipe that comes from your back yard." -Barry Bunker

So, as residents we did not install our own pipe so why is the builder or developer not responsible? Fine if Harford County does not want to take responsibility but the following departments signed off of the Final Plat for Rogers Ford so we will be awaiting one of those entities to take the responsibility if DPW, MRA or any other corporation that stood to gain money as we suffer at their greed.

Harford County Deputy State Health Officer
Harford County Director of Parks & Recreation
Harford County Director of Public Works
Harford County Director of Department of Planning & Zoning
Harford County Deputy County Attorney
Harford County County Executive
Harford County Director of Administration

From: Walsh, Steven
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2021 1:06 PM
To: steven.w.ferrell.civ@mail.mil
Cc: CountyExecutive ; Johnson, Andre ; Siemek, Joseph ; Bettin, William ; Bob@bobward.com; debrap@wardcommunities.com; steven_ferrell@ymail.com; MartinC@HPSManagement.com; Capone314@hotmail.com
Subject: 903 Shenandoah Court/Joppa - Mr Ferrell

Mr. Ferrell,
We understand the ground settlement issues you have been discussing with the County and others for some time now. You and I have also discussed the issues.

The County is certainly involved in the approvals of land development and the homebuilding process. The development plans go through a robust review process by various departments . When approval is obtained, the developer/builder has the site engineering done to install the infrastructure that will be turned over to County ownership (water, sewer, storm drain, roads, sidewalks, (stormwater management to the HOA) ) to serve the houses. The County again is involved in the review of the engineering drawings as well as inspecting the construction in order to meet the county rules and regulations. However, the County does not review the existing soil conditions, or their suitability for development or home construction. That is the responsibility of the developer, his engineering consultants and his contractors.

The Harford County Code specifies the maintenance responsibilities for the various aspects of the construction which occurs after completion and is summarized as follows:

Item Responsibility
Road County –DPW
Sidewalk Property owner, unless County maintained pipes (water, sewer, storm drain) have caused the sidewalk issue
Storm drains in road County-DPW
Storm drain inlet box and pipe (carrying no road drainage) in yards between properties Property owner or Home owners association
Stormwater management pond Home owners association
Water, sewer piping in street County DPW
Water, sewer piping on property Homeowner
Private property (yard areas) Homeowner
House and foundation construction Homeowner

We hope this clarifies and reiterates the County’s position concerning responsibility for specific issues.

Thanks,
Steve