buy your own wall...stay out of town

@me, Your statement could not be more wrong nor seem more ignorant and I will tell YOU why. Gang signs arent graffiti, they're vandalism. And whats to stop gangs from going after eachother to claim any place as their own? Common sense, thats what. And dont tell me how it wont work because Kingston isnt that bad of a place, if this can work all over the WORLD and gangs dont clame them as their own, what makes you think they will here? Put up cameras on it so if anything does happen you know who it is. And if gang members know that the camera's are there then beleive me, they wont cause any trouble. They might be under educated in most cases but they're not idiots. Tell me one gang thats willing to attack another gang on camera, completely exposing their faces, and not care about going to jail. And yes, my thought IS to have only one wall because graffiti walls arent just some small 10 foot wall, hey are wide and tall for quality peices. It probably cant go in the heart of Kingston, and lets be honest, who would want it too? When it first starts off theres going too be alot of people just writing whatever on there, but after some time they will get bored of it and only the real graffiti writers will stay and make it a peice of art. Saying no to this is like denying a painter his canvas. But in this case, you can only hope that if writers dont have a designated place to paint (ie; their canvas), that they dont end up painting something that you consider important. There will always be graffiti no matter what anyone says, I just simply suggested a way to make it more civilized. And to be honest, i really dont appreciate your high and mighty attitude saying that it wont work and that you know why like you've seen this happen before. I've lived in places that had legal walls and guess what? no gangs. I've written and took part AT legal walls and guess what? Again, no gangs. so please get off your high horse and stop acting like you know what your saying. You speak from opinion, while I on the other hand, speak from personal experience.

And
@bold, its comments like that, that show me you have no passion for arts what so ever. im guessing from your name and the way you just put down graffiti cold like it was nothing that you are an older gentelman probably 40+ but my guess would be around 60 or 70 because that sounds like something my grand pa would say. and the problem with that is that you cant accept change, graffiti has changed since you were younger. its not just vandalism anymore, hell its not even just graffiti anymore. for some people street art/ graffiti if their job, passion, and way of life. thats how they make a living. now im sorry if your upset because you cant be as creative as some of the artists who actually have a passion for it but that doesnt mean you have to be so closed minded about it. and i mean no disrespect but you'd wish that this wall was up if someone went and wrote gang signs all around your house.

And like I said, I mean no disrespect to either of you, im just saying things from a different point of view and responding with the same attitude i feel was given towards me.

I think you have a good idea, and with some work, it might be something that can happen. There are places out of the way and out of sight that are used now and don't bother anyone. Don't give up on it, it's a solution to an ongoing problem.

There always will be those who put down any new idea, just like when a street work project comes up that will change how traffic flows. They will tell you that their will be accidents, bodies everywhere, that it will be a real disaster. And it never is. People are creatures of habit, thats a given. Keep working on it.

Wow, here is a student who is proposing a possible solution to a problem and all everyone can do is cut her down.

The only time graffiti/art isn't vandalism is when you own the wall you "paint" on or you are commissioned by the owner. If you "paint" a wall you don't own without the owner's permission it is vandalism. The theory of having a community owned wall where artists can graffiti at will seems like a good theory but is limited in the amount of space and then who decides what artists get to fill this finite space? Is a committee formed where only the art that its members feel is worthy gets to go on the wall? Does the wall get painted over and done by new artists every couple of months? If another artist paints over the work you were given permission to paint on this wall is that artist committing vandalism? Is this wall supposed to be maintained by taxpayers, some of whom I'm sure do not find graffiti art at all? There are many more unanswered questions but good luck finding your legal wall and in the meantime don't deface private or public property.

it's a good idea. keep writing. and to everyone who instantly said "no," and especially the person who said to stay out of town, shame on you. if you bullies don't have anything constructive to say, don't say anything at all.

@old man, thanks for the support but I'm a guy.

Sorry anonymous, after I wrote it, I realized the chances of a male being a graffiti writer were greater than being a female. At any rate I still support the right to express oneself artistically. People didn't like cars at first, then they didn't like planes. In a more progressive town, a graffiti area would be set up without all the negativity. Good luck in your pursuits.

oh yeah:

Legal wall. Let's make it happen. I approached Herzogs about the wall behind the plaza a few times over the years. I own a mural painting business, and proposed the idea of having kids in the community participate in a large mural painting event on the wall facing the plaza. This would give kids something to be proud of in their community and bring life to an otherwise dull run of concrete. But, alas, I was turned away each time without a good reason. Hopefully they will come around this spring when I try again. Anyone who is interested in joining my effort please say so. On with the good fight, down with the nay-sayers!!!

We did it in New Paltz for an event, also in Woodstock and the community loved it. Nobody had anything bad to say. Let's give it a go in Kingston.

Here are some murals from Lafayette, Louisiana

Lafayette, Lousiana not especially known for their progressive views.

There are LOTS of free walls around the globe for graffiti artists to use. Those of you who say that the graffiti artists will just end up fighting over the space or that there is only limited space so it won't work don't understand the concept of graffiti OR a public graffiti wall.

The public graffiti wall will be an ever changing piece of art. Graffiti artists know, inherently, that their work is mostly temporary and will eventually be painted over or withered away with the elements. A public wall will be a space where the collaborate on top of each other or make a whole new piece.

5 Pointz is one of the most WELL KNOWN of the public graffiti areas:
http://5ptz.com/graff/about/

Venice has them as well
http://veniceartwalls.com/

Even my little city has them

Thank you Llnds, I felt even though there are people saying that its a good idea on here, that I was the only one who knew that everything put up on it is temporary at most so it wouldn't be a community project or anything where people come together and paint one thing, but more so just a place for graffiti writers to be able to go and express ourselves through paint and not get in trouble with the cops and at the same time not deface this place we call home. It doesn't need to be in the dead center of town, but I feel we should have one.

I'm the one who made this by the way, I just created an account

Blabetta -
YES.. A single "community" project that serves ONE purpose on ONE (or a handful) of days only is NOT a legal graffiti wall.

What I described above IS a graffiti wall and I feel like all cities with any type of artistic community should have one

Llnds I was agreeing with you. I've been to them before. Everything I said was agreeing with you, not arguing it.

The wall behind the plaza is big enough that a portion of it could be dedicated to youth groups for murals and the other to the graff community. It would bring in people from all over the tri-state area, and show that Kingston is becoming a progressive city.

The work you see on all legal graffiti walls is temporary. That is the beauty of it. It is a constantly changing display of talent for the community to see.
There are issues that come along with it however. Being a graffiti artist for almost half of my life I have seen great permission spots turn into garbage dumps because people don't respect the fact that they have this great space to do something that otherwise requires trespassing and risking getting fined for various anti-graffiti laws. The hardest part in doing something like this is to keep all the writers on the same page in that they are all responsible for taking away their empty cans, cleaning up any mess they make, and making sure that nobody paints anything outside of the designated space.
I would love to see this come to fruition. It would be a great way for people to see that it IS an art form and it can be a positive thing to have in a city as a way to keep the illegal graffiti down in our neighborhoods.

Balbetta, I know. I was ranting in agreement with you. Haha.

I don't understand how you think you have the right to just go paint someone else's wall. Just because you chose an art form that takes a lot of space doesn't mean that others have to supply that space for you. I appreciate all kinds of art including the murals pictured in this section, however I don't appreciate how you think you are entitled to do what you do where ever you want. Keep searching out owners of large walls and get permission from them, don't assume the rest of the community wants to support or even look at your art.

@My_Opinion
THAT IS THE POINT OF THIS REQUEST!!!

Large walls and areas conducive to great graffiti murals are difficult to find and get permission to use so often times graffiti artists will use what they consider to be the perfect canvas and their art is enhancing it (and often times, with the good ones, it does - not that it makes it right)... OTHER TIMES it is the actual location of the artwork that makes the statement of the piece actual ART and not just a pretty picture. You are very right in that they have no rights to paint there and that its only at the cost of the owner, BUT it's that illegal aspect of some of the great pieces of work that make them amazing art.. (again, here, being torn between my affection for beautiful street art and respect for people's personal property)

A free wall where it is legal to paint generally helps to focus those who are simply looking for a canvas to paint on and it WILL focus them, it has been proven that it does. It also brings an otherwise under ground community out in to the light where they could potentially make connections with building owners where they end up being hired to do work. Someone who is a great graffiti artist isn't going to walk up to a business owner and say "well I did this, that, and the other ILLEGAL murals" as a part of their pitch to take on the job. A free wall would give them that place to create legally which could turn in to other legal jobs.

If fact just the other day I saw a bunch of artists painting a MASSIVE mural on the other sides of the train tracks. I could see them from my studio so I walked across to take a look and spoke with them. The building owner saw their work on a free wall, found who they were, contacted them, and hired them to do this amazing mural.

The only downfall of a free wall is the potential for abuse, but if the free wall has some small level of control and resources (trash cans with daily/weekly pickup, etc) then it will stay pretty well organized by the community itself.

Personally, Ii don't like any kind of graffiti, and don't feel that I should be forced to have to view it all over structures in my rural community or rocks, etc. out in the hills or the Catskill park. BUT, I do understand that there is a real art element w/ real artists who produce graffitti murals. Since walls are the canvas, why not a space for graffitti artists. It is a shame that there aren't train cars set aside for true graffitti art. That would be something to look at and provide a larger venue, a greater chance to be seen and appreciated by people who do view this as art. Frankly if it were a moving art show with ever changing murals, I would probably love them. It would add something to the experience.

Exactly the point Frankly Frank, and if you have a look at some of the links I had posted above you can see some of the AMAZING artwork that could come of a "public" art installation such as a pre-determined legal wall or train car, etc/

Anyone who buys a burger or drops coins in a machine pays TAXES. So they OWN or at least help maintain something called the "Public Commons." There are places in the world where "being seen" with the wrong Bible in your hand or speaking the wrong (foreign) language will either get you killed or seriously endanger your social well being. That is why we have a FIRST amendment that protects not only the thumpers right to wear/display and read their right cross(es) or stars or cresents but also allows artists to publically display pictures of Jesus eating sh*t with a smile on her face! As a Cold War Veteran that has seen too much all I can say is shame on the Righteous but*s that can't handle me using one of George Carlin's 7 verbotten words.

GL..... I don't really understand. What does that have to do with a graffiti wall?

Answer to Balbetta: on 2012-12-21 bold said "buy your own wall...stay out of town." The implication is that unless someone has a government "title" they are not a Citizen. My point is that ALL the People regardless of race, creed or ... own a tiny bit of the world they live in because it is impossible to live without making a contribution of some kind. Since there are always public places that belong to everyone and no one at the same time. Streets, sidewalks ... concrete walls that keep dirt from washing out from under bridges, etc. Places that could use some art. Places that rich fat cats wrongfully claim as theirs. Places where the color white rules when rainbow would be better. BTW, words maybe just black and white but they two can paint pictures with "all the colors of wind." Just ask a poet. I aint one of them but sometimes I try ... only to be misunderstood, rejected, questioned. That is until times and attitudes change or the words show up in a book and you honor me with the title - Author :)