Will forward this to the Traffic Department to monitor. Rotary has improved somewhat now that the construction is complete. I myself have stood for two years on detail in the Rotary during the construction period and have seen the backups. We would constantly pull the traffic thru the rotary Very high volume of traffic still travels thru Rotary during those hours, especially when school in session. The same is true for neighboring Salem Street Rotary.

Rural Road should be blocked, resulting in a 4 street intersection and the rotary should be eliminated and replaced by traffic lights. Many pedestrians cross through this very dangerous rotary in addition to the vehicular traffic. I doubt anything will be done because this is Medford, land of "its been that way forever so why would we change it.?"

R Carle, the very fact that this system exists, and that city employees have been so responsive, is evidence that things are changing. Let's try to allow the change to happen before we poo-poo it.

you must be young and/or a newcomer to Medford. You'll learn.

My recommendation would be to attend a Traffic Commission Meeting at the Police Academy. They meet once a month. They are in charge of signs or any other changes to present configurations of the roadway. This is a process. Alva Erickson is on the Commission. Her number is 781-391-6409. You can attend and voice your concerns and bring recommendations.

Rotaries can move more cars more safely than signals through continuous flow (saves fuel and uses the street space better) but the key is slowing people down so they make eye contact. So the FHWA does recommend painted splitter islands to show people how to enter the intersection. Guidelines here http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/innovative/roundabouts/fhwasa10007/ and I'm including a picture of a paint-and-signs (not cement-and-signals) fix.

Thank you, Kevin Cuddeback, for your very concrete contribution! This type of rotary, with painted splitter islands (visible at night and in rain/snow?), does look like the most effective way to move the most traffic through with the fewest problems.

Everyone but the Medford Police department knows the rotary at High and Winthrop is a disaster and has been for years. Suggesting that people go to the monthly meeting is passing the buck. Either admit you will do nothing or fix it. The simplest thing to do is block the Rural Road access and reposition the island to the center of the space. This is not rocket science.

There is a process. It is not passing the buck. I am not asking you to go to a meeting. I am looking into it.

the rotary involves two state routes. If the city wanted to change it could they? I have written to my state reps and heard nothing.

I talked to our Traffic Commission and was told that I have to contact MA Dot, formerly Mass Highway. I left a message with them about ten minutes ago. I left the message also regarding the Rte 16 faded no left turn sign on Winthrop St as well.

Do you see why so many of us taxpayers are upset at the service the city provides? You did not know until you talked to the Medford traffic folks today that you needed to contact the state? Seriously? And why isn't the traffic commission contacting them? Why the police? And then you did not talk to a human at DOT? You had to leave a VM? You don't think that is odd? I guess I live in a different world. Ironically this issue involves the now infamous rotary which played a role in the Lebert debacle, which put a stain on my police department which will take years to fade.

Resident on rural ave here, please do not close off our access to the traffic circle, please do start policing our street to verify that the only drivers are residents only, as the "do not enter" signage instructs. As I suggested to the mayor before she took office, a yield sign on high street coming from medford square would help those who forget they need to yield to traffic that is already in the circle. Reshaping the circle intake routes with small islands is a great idea as the previous commenter mentioned with the attached photo.

A.P., could you be more specific about access & Rural Ave? Are you looking to preserve all movements into and out from Rural during non-rush? I think for safety (to eliminate Rural-bound traffic from crossing westbound High, it may need a "no access into Rural (ever, for anybody)" / "no access FROM Rotary TO Rural. OR How about "Access to Rural by Right Turn from High Only" (obviously, we'd have to reduce that to an icon ;-)? Then we could ask for those plastic reflective posts to show that traffic can't make that movement from northbound Winthrop or the Rotary?

Diego Fells: Paint and recessed pavement reflectors are very often enough (right now we've got nothing). Next step up is usually to re-pave inside the "islands" with cobblestones or ribbed concrete (still flush with the asphalt so plows don't snag and tractor-trailers / firetrucks can still "violate" the islands when they need to). Another option is usually small splitter island (the size of a truck tire) with a "keep right" sign placed about 75' back from the rotary itself.

R Carle: this will blow your mind on why it's actually better to replace traffic lights with a well-designed rotary ("dream budget" rotary) (1) moves more cars than a light (2) is safer than a light (3) involves less waiting (4) is great for walking and bikes too.

Specifically, access to Rural Ave from Winthrop Circle and vice versa. The addition of a "no left turn" sign at the end of Rural ave is helping prevent near-misses (though I still see people taking left turns there), but the Do Not Enter sign with the fine print is not enforced by police. To your suggestion, when I come up Withrop street to go up Rural ave, I would like to be able to get home instead of having to go down high street and loop around side streets. Not sure why Rural Ave is being discussed as the source of grief, as the issues I have witnessed all occur from the other inlets to the circle. Cars flipping upside-down into Winthop street south, cars going backwards around the circle coming from Woburn on Winthrop street, and cars not slowing down as they enter the traffic circle from Medford square, as they curse and honk their way through.

Rural Ave is being discussed because it is kind of the straw that breaks the camels back: the source of a small number of dangerous crossing movements that remakes what should be a "normal" 4-spoke rotary into a rotary-with-a-bunch-of-complications (left turns & a conflicting cross motion from "up Winthrop into Rural") With Rural, all heck breaks loose: it a 5-spoke rotary? 4-spoke-with-dangerous wild cards? Switching Rural to "only right turn movements" greatly simplifies the design (they can basically use the diagram I posted above). Rural-access is also the reason why there's such a huge patch of "unexplained" asphalt for about 200' on westbound High entering the rotary, so that "you" can make a long, strange, diagonal slide across High to get into Rural (not quite a turn, not quite in the rotary).

"the unexplained" arm of asphalt reaching from the rotary to Rural and that makes High strangely wide is a big part of what "unrounds the circle", and makes it hard to see the intersection for what it is.

Turning onto Rural from the circle is not the most graceful driving maneuver, I agree. Better road markings would help clarify that "unexplained" stretch you're referring to. It seems that when sections of the roads were repaved after the sewer/misc construction, the markings were not given proper follow-up. Adding congestion during rush hour(s) to the mix only gives drivers more freedom to interpret the circle flow as they please in that given moment. Awaiting Cpt Clemente's update from MA DOT.

Honestly, a sign that says "all traffic keep right" would be an improvement.

True, the MWRA pipe project seems to have at least cost us the barrel that used to sit on the High St side: Here is a view from 2014, but the marking were pretty lacking even then. https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4211902,-71.1174403,3a,75y,309.24h,79.68t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZ4LFtioJAgObJFdu27jE9w!2e0!5s20140901T000000!7i13312!8i6656

The fine print on Rural's Do Not Enter can be a BIG problem. The "normal"/"casual" user of the Wintrop rotary sees Rural's Do Not Enter sign from way off or from the corner of their eye and and assumes "I don't have to worry that somebody will try to go Winthrop-Rural or High-Rural" They go around the circle, not expecting Rural's residents to diagonal-slide over there, and folks on High zoom right to the circle without expecting Rural residents to come at them at that strange angle. I've found this to be a source of conflict near-every time I use Rural during the hours it's permitted to me. Absolute rules make better intersections (not having to look at your watch or read the residential status of another driver)

To do anything but permanently block Rural Rd at the rotary is a total waste. Local drivers will ignore any time-related rules, just the way they ignore no right on red rules now. One block north on Winthrop there are Do Not Enter signs barring a car from driving west from Lawrence. Many people who live in the neighborhood totally ignore it and drive in there rather than obeying the law and going around the block. Face it. This rotary is a terribly designed intersection and has been for the 40 years I have lived near it. If it hasn't been fixed by now it never will be. It is another example of the oddity that a state that is home to some of the most brilliant people in the world has state and local governments run by some of the dumbest people in the world.The police were not even aware that the state DOT controls that rotary until this week. You have to pick your battles in this town. This one is a loser.

R Carle, Ye of little faith LOL. Give me a shot at this. If I am taking the time to read everything and respond, (and actually agreeing with you about the Circle) , I am also going to go to bat for it. Like I mentioned before, there is a process that has to occur. Here is the update.

As far as Winthrop Street Rotary, It is being placed on the Agenda for the Next Traffic Commission Meeting. It is moving in the right direction. I will update everyone as this proceeds. I have been told we can do it. Keep forwarding the suggestions.

Also to R Carle, I look forward to some positive feedback, not all of the negativity. All is not doom and gloom. I may not have all of the answers, but I know where to find them. The should elevate me somewhat from the dumbest category...I will see some positive stuff from you yet.

Wow, Kevin Cuddeback, your contributions are incredible! Are you a paid consultant or something? If not, you should be.

Thank you a thousand times for your analysis of traffic flow, "unexplained asphalt," complexity vs simplicity, and your posted link to the experience of Poynton, U.K.

This approach makes sense for the Winthrop rotary as well as Medford Square itself, which suffers from the same gridlock, "chopped-up-ness," and malaise that Poynton did before their experiment with such a cutting-edge approach.

I'm excited to think of the possibilities for Medford in such constructive thinking and writing -- I thank you so very much for it.

Captain Clemente, would you be able to suggest to the Traffic Committee that they read this page and watch the posted link about Poynton before the next meeting?

A.P.> "Resident on rural ave here, please do not close off our access to the traffic circle, please do start policing our street to verify that the only drivers are residents only, as the "do not enter" signage instructs."

A.P., does that seem fair? Expecting unimpeded access for yourself while denying it to others?
How is that equitable?

I live on Hall Avenue, a street that sees a tremendous amount of traffic that is obviously not from our street (perhaps some of it diverted from Rural Avenue's sign prohibiting non-residents from going that route). But on principle, I do not expect a similar sign prohibiting "non-residents" from driving within 9 yd of my kitchen. It's part of my civic responsibility as a citizen here to work with the traffic that needs to flow where it does.

I disagree with this "Residents Only" approach on principle, as uncivic, NIMBY, and legally ambiguous.

Who =exactly= are the "residents" who are allowed through this sign with apparent legal force? Am I, as a =Medford= resident, allowed to pass through such a sign on a Medford street other than my own, or is it only residents living on that exact street, only Rural Avenue? What about Traincroft St.? Crocker Rd.? Lincoln Rd.? Luther Rd.? Badger Rd.? Damon Rd.? Powder House Rd Ext.? What about Lincoln Rd north of Lawrence Rd.? Damon Rd north of Lawrence Rd.? What =exactly= is it that you want the police to enforce?

Where does this special privilege end?

Do we need to get special decals on our license plates or windshields, so that police will be able to enforce such an ambiguous rule? Good law should be understood by all and enforceable -- otherwise it puts unfair burden on law enforcement and dilutes the enforcement of all law.

What if a person -- in order to honor this special privilege -- needs to drive an absurdly long way around -- creating yet more unnecessary traffic on several other streets, whose affected residents then decide they also want such a privileged sign?

What if another person's "Residents Only" sign diverts traffic onto my street? Do I then need to assert the same "right," resulting in an ever-further degradation of our infrastructure?

Where does this uncivic approach end?

Have "violations" of these ambiguous signs ever been enforced? Do they in fact have the force of law? Have they ever been challenged in court? Were they ever discussed by the Traffic Commission? If so, I believe we need to revisit this issue, and have asked for it to be on the agenda of the next meeting.

To Diego Fells' point: Police demanding "show me your papers!" as A.P.'s preferred way to enforce "Residents Only" is absurd in a free country, and a big waste of prime-time police resources, and a game, which if all blocks played, would result in no city streets being open at rush hour. Instead of demanding that the police staff the gates as we turn each block into a gated community, how about we demand better street design to civilize traffic everywhere, and spread the burden gently and universally?

"During Rush Hours" fine print is also bad design. We all take an eye test as part of our driver's license, but not even 20-20 vision allows people to see, read, time-check, compute, and comply while they are doing ordinary safe driving, such as, you know, looking out for unexpected movements or a kid chasing a ball into the street. "During rush hours" is clearly squeaky-wheel-grease pandering, not a real engineering or public safety solution.

Whatever the short term solution is at the Winthrop rotary, please also apply it to the High St @ Arlington St @ MVP rotary. (the Joe Pizza / Doc Looby rotary). It needs double yellow / hatched splitter islands and "rotary" signs too (as evidenced by the crash-pulverized curb and deep tire ruts up the side of the central island) http://seeclickfix.com/issues/2309904

Diego, you make excellent points. I live about 100 yards from the rotary, and drive through it on average 4 times a day, at all hours. You are certainly aware of the conditions there on a typical rush hours morning. My suggestion is to permanently block off the little access to Rural (the 5th entry/exit point) and remove the rotary entirely, replacing it with a routine squared intersection with proper traffic signals with left green arrows, walk signals, etc. An example would the intersection of Boston Avenue and the Parkway near the storage facility building. That is an extremely busy intersection but it works. You, if you use the Rural Road alley, would be inconvenienced a little. Because of a one way situation we are inconvenienced getting to our house, requiring us to go around a big block. But with my suggested change there would probably be less non-local traffic on your street, the interminable gasoline semis would have to slow down on High Street, pedestrians could safely navigate the intersection, and of course the chaos that occurs at rush hour when everyone is so frazzled that drivers do crazy things, would be greatly mitigated. Of course no change will ever be made here because of the incompetence of our local and state officials, so all of the good suggestions made on this issue are a waste of time. I just hope no one is actually killed here in an accident. There have been lots of bad injuries, but no deaths yet.

R Carle, Converting this rotary to a signalized intersection is probably no less than a $3m project (the signals themselves would be hundreds of thousands of dollars, and the construction millions, easy) Far better to see what a few thousand dollars worth of signs and yellow paint on the asphalt could do first.

I'm glad this issue is getting some serious discussion. Better channelization of traffic is key here. Basically, we need to turn an outdated Massachusetts rotary into a modern roundabout, used successfully all over the world. I'm not convinced that paint alone will work here, however, but starting a process to redesign and reconstruct this intersection is in order.

Captain Clemente -- I cannot find the schedule for the Traffic Commission on the City's website. Can you please post here when this issue will be handled? Thanks.

Great discussion! Looking forward to some progress on the issue. Moving toward Kevin's suggestion, which would convert an outdated Massachusetts "rotary" to a modern "roundabout", which work well all over the world would be great. It will be a challenging design effort given the extra leg at Rural Ave, but not impossible. And it will take some resources (i.e., money). I'm hoping that's the recommendation of the Traffic Commission. I do not see when the next meeting is on the Commisison's website or on the City Calendar. Can that information be posted here please Captain Clemente?

Traffic Commission Meeting Tuesday April 12th at 2PM at the Medford Police Academy located at 90 Main St. Winthrop Street Rotary is on the Agenda.

Stand still and blocking lanes

Traffic Commission referred this and the issues to the Engineering Department