RRC assigned this issue to Division of Sanitation Dispatch

This issue was recategorized from Snow/Ice Conditions on Streets/Sidewalks to Traffic/Pedestrian Safety Study Requests.

Division of Sanitation Dispatch assigned this issue to Traffic – Jennifer C

Please stop suggesting that restricting parking on Grand will solve this problem ---- a car is NEVER allowed to pass a school bus with flashing lights that is loading children--- whether there is room to do so or not . The City and the School board have to decide if they do or do not want to bring traffic to a dead stop in the middle of rush hour to allow loading of students.

Just by way of history-- when the bike lanes were proposed elected officials held a number of meetings purportedly to receive public input. Promises were made that there would be no loss of parking other than as shown on the plans given to the public. There was no loading zone for school buses shown on those plans.

None of the busses had flashing lights or stop signs out today. Perhaps if this is a pickup spot to transport children to other schools they can relocate the pickup stop to a safer area. Down by the Morris Canal at the end of Washington is where some camp busses pick up and drop off children during the summer. It is much safer there.

Thank you for submitting this issue. The Traffic Engineering Division is working with Councilman Solomon's office to extend the school drop-off/pick-up zone to allow for more buses to stage without impeding the travel lane.

Please explain what you mean when you say Councilman Solomon is working with engineering to “extend”
The drop- off/ pick up zone. Are you referring to extending it on Grand at the expense of on street parking ? (If so Councilman Solomon will face some very angry residents/voters who were promised no further loss of parking as a result of any bike lanes) Please advise so that the neighborhood is aware of what is happening,
Ps the busses did have the flashers going - state law prohibits them from not having them on when loading and unloading

Francine kids safety is more important than 3 parking spaces taken away for a total of 2 hours a day.

Francine kids safety is more important than 3 parking spaces taken away for a total of 2 hours a day.

Also, I guarantee I can get a lot more parents to fight for those 3 spots than you can otherwise, and I'm sure Solomon knows this. And I guarantee you they don't have their stop signs out, eyes are more aware of things than your perceived knowledge of traffic laws.

Section 1and 4

Jc resident—- Your hostility is bizarre but be that as it may ... 1) my “perceived” knowledge of the law is based on more than thirty years of involvement in the practice of law. 2) i never said the busses had their stop signs out - I said they had red lights flashing. I have pictures of the buses flashing their red lights 3) Neither section 1 and/or 4 of the plain language statement of the law allows someone to pass the school buses loading kids on Grand street as the buses are not stopped at a school or on the same side of the street as a school — there is no school on the South side of Grand 4) it’s closer to 7 parking spaces that would be lost 5 ) If Councilman Solomon wants to walk back from statements he ( as well as those who presented the plans) made when the bike lanes were proposed so be it - but as a resident/ voter I am entitled to know if he intends to do that.

Seeing that the busses are parked in front of a school, they are allowed ro pass. You need to touch up on your knowledge of the law

What do you think that building is at the corner of Washington and Grand? Maybe a school?

And it is three, the other spaces the busses use are drive ways that never get used. But hey, if you think that spots for cars are more important than the safety of children then I guess that speaks volumes and there's no sense in further discussing this with you.

It's clear that "JC Resident" is a troll acting in bad faith with all the personal attacks and strawmen ("xxxxx is more important to you than children's safety"). Their goal is to distract from the actual discussion to impede progress that would improve the city. I suggest ignoring them and their selfish agenda completely.

The school is technically on Sussex street. The part on grand street is actually a piece of 4 corners Park. And as for the driveways that “never get used” - one of those is mine and I use it every day and get blocked in by the buses every day when I try to take MY son to school so, no thank you, you cannot put bus parking in front of my driveway (which is used by 6 other people/families as well). I agree the situation is a hazard and the buses need to be moved somewhere else for the safety of the children as well as the flow of traffic. Also for the record, parents dropping off their kids at the buses are making the situation worse by illegally parking and double parking and standing in the street. Moving the buses to Washington might be a better solution as the street is wider and allows for more access now that we have the bike lane on Grand

View this morning of traffic backup and cars going around buses (and illegally parked parents) into the oncoming lane.

Issue 7175386 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue.

Not a troll, just someone who can't understand how you all can think that parking spots are more important than the safety of children. And that's not strawman, that's just a fact. And if that driveway does get used, then that sucks amd instead of 2 spot temporarily being inconvenienced, then it should be 5.There no reason you shouldn't be able to use your driveway because of this situation.

It’s a false equivalence to say that because we care about parking we don’t also care about the safety of the children. And many of the unsafe conditions are being created by the parents doing the dropping off (illegally and double parking causing even more of a traffic issue, standing in the street to wave to their kids on the buses, walking their kids between parked cars instead of at a crosswalk). It’s a terrible situation all around from both a traffic/parking and safety concern and that’s why something needs to be done to rectify it.

Another day another disaster on Grand St. The whole area has been a mass of traffic and honking horns and blowing whistles for the last half hour. Cars have been stuck trying to get around the buses for ages. I wonder if staggering the buses would be a good solution. There’s room for 2 buses in the bus stop parking (the third bus that parks there blocks my/other people’s driveway) so maybe 2 buses could arrive at a set time, load up and leave making room for the next 2 buses. Either that or move the pickup point to Washington. But this cannot go on like this for the rest of the year.

So a car hit a bus today, it was only a matter of time. It doesn't matter where the spots come from, Washington, Grand or Sussex, the fact is up to 6 spots will have to be temporarily inconvenienced until the new school is built.

Awful news! I pray there were no injures. Also unfortunate for the car driver who will likely be legally at fault even though it is rationally 100 percent the bus's fault for blocking traffic.

This is awful to hear and I hope everyone is okay. Also this was from this morning. Two trucks coming from different directions in the same lane of traffic. Something needs to be done. ASAP.

To prevent buses from double parking in the travel lane, extended school pick-up/drop-off areas will be established. This will allow buses to pull over to the curb without impeding traffic. Emergency No Parking signs were posted on Grand St along the school frontage (for school days 7:30-9:00am and 2:30-4:00pm) and on Washington St between Grand St and Sussex St (for 7:30-9:00am only) in effect starting on Monday, Jan 13th until Friday, February 7th. DPW will follow up with permanent metal signs as soon as possible. The no parking times are only for a short period of time in the morning and afternoon. Parking Enforcement will be on site to ensure the pick-up/drop-off areas are clear during these times.

Issue 7193799 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue.

Issue 7192586 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue.

Thank you! Also glad to hear that parking enforcement will be present.

The ordinance about parking has to be amended to allow the change in parking restrictions. Please advise when the ordinance will be introduced

I pointed this out on a different ticket. The travel lanes on this section of Grand St is narrower than the State’s minimum lane width recommendation. I seriously think everyone is right about their frustrations, but the empirical data is with a lane width of 104 inches no matter what you do with parking restrictions police presence or what not you will not solve the problem. The State guidelines call for new roads to be 144 inches wide and they recommend that at the minimum they are 120 inches. The federal maximum for bus/truck width 102 inches exclusive of the mirrors, which can then add an additional 10 inches. The most recent Blue Bird school bus has a width exclusive of mirrors is 96 inches and with mirrors 106 inches (older ones are even wider). Meanwhile theses travel lanes are 104 inches. Simple math shows these lanes cannot accommodate bus/truck traffic anymore unless they widen the lanes. I am not sure how the “engineers” planned these, but the field conditions “as built” is definitely out of compliance. Let’s focus the empirical data vs citizens fighting with each other.

Metin, thanks very much for the research and data. How can we pass on your findings to the city? Perhaps the lanes need to revert to their former status (without bike lanes) while this safety concern is addressed.

I made more careful observation of the buses this week---all the buses are not using their flashers when stopped to pick up the kids and cars and trucks are passing all the buses in both directions. Although I am not versed in the exact measurements, to Metin's point I have seen SUV's and trucks passing the busses that are parked at the curb ( not double parked) and the SUV's and trucks have to move over the yellow line and into oncoming traffic to make the passing maneuver. ( The average SUV is 6.5 feet wide, the average school bus 8-8.5 feet wide = minimum lane width needed for safe passing = 14-15 feet).

This parking ordinance will have its second reading at the February 13th Council meeting.