The harassment, and responsibility for such lies solely with the owners of the Manor. By your own admission you claim to have lived there a short time, and only visit friends, so your viewpoint and opinion are skewed based on exposure. The neighbors are subjected to the drug dealing, violence, foot traffic and assorted crimes perpetrated by residents of this illegitimate shelter for 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. The fact that the owners "do not allow drugs" on the premises apparently has no bearing on the people who hang out the windows smoking joints, or carry on tricks with prostitutes or whomever in full view of an elementary school playground. The police reports speak for themselves and if the owners really wanted to provide a service for people in need, maybe they should live there themselves for a little while and realize the situation for what it really is. It's no surprise to the neighbors that this issue has been opened, it should be no surprise to the current residence either.

a current resident told me the other day that the place, "has gotten out of hand lately" and he didn't feel comfortable living there. I don't know who "my business" is friends with or who they know in there, but clearly that point of view is patently incorrect.

Seriously,, You do not know how long I lived there and how many times I visit friends there on a daily basis.. I have seen the NEIGHBORS harassment.. Not allowing us to park on a public street with our cars..I am a law biding citizen.. Perfectly legal and inspected car and I get threatened to move my car from in front of there house.. The so called people hanging out of windows, smoking joints, prostitution is a joke.. Where do you come up with this crap.. Police reports.. please.. when social services throws there most weak and vulnerable, mentally ill at Elizabeth Manor, you are going to have problems.. The owners do the best they can.. Plus there is staff that live there 24 hours a day.. The owners are there all hours of the day and night.. Tom is there on Thurs. over night as well as there at a moments phone call. people should know what they are talking about before they make comments..

My business : I agree completely that people should know what they are talking about before they post. Are you aware that the "residence" does not have a proper variance to operate as a shelter? are you also aware that certain parts of the building are not accessible to fire fighting aparatus? Have you or Tom, or Karen lived inside the residence for more than 10 years? If you cannot answer yes than you know less about the residence than I do, so with all do respect please re-read the first sentence. Ask any neighbor that has followed tracks in the snow to the Manor's doorstep after having a shovel stolen. Ask the owner of Stewarts if they like being robbed by the Manor's patrons. Ask any and all the neighbors on the street their opinon and you'll get an educated and congruent response, enough is enough! don't blame welfare, don't blame the neighbors, blame the money hungry owner.

The City understands the tax burden ($$) the Manor has on City wide services including fire and police. The tax paying land owners on the block are met daily with drug dealers, noise, loitering, foul language, discarded ciggarette butts, and a host of other complaints. The time for places like this on a block of single residence homes is at an end. The owners need to realize that when you accept government compensation for providing a service, that service needs to have a minimal, if not a completely absent impact on the surrounding community. Clearly they have not done that. I have never once harrassed an occupant of the Manor, but I have been robbed by them, vandalized, been witness to drug deals, prostitution, foul language etc...etc. Trying to defend somthing that is illegal in the first place is where you are wrong "my business", the owners of the Manor would do well to take their business elsewhere.

If you have been robbed then you must be going to the meeting that the new neighborhood watch has been providing for the community.. I do not accept or condone any who commits acts of violence.. The Manor has been there a long time, has been providing a service and has been harassed the same.. How many have tried to shut it down? If you see any acts that are criminal, report them.. you are one of the few who have not harassed anyone from there.. Any one living on the block knows what the manor is and if they do not like it they do not have to live there,, Kingston is a big place,, change your scenery. It is easy to blame the owners for others actions when you should look at Social Services, Ulster County Jail and Mental Health who tells the owners to accept these people due to contracts and then dumps the unfortunate on Tom's door step.. The owners have asked for services to come to the house to help these people with little help from the county.. It is a dumping ground to Ulster County.. If you want the Manor to be a better place then talk to Tom and ask him what YOU can do to help.. What calls you can make.. Call Albany and ask WHY mentally ill and the severely old are waiting for housing placement and are left at the Manor for years.. So quick to judge, but no one steps up to the plate to ask if they can help.. HYPOCRITES....

I do not know anyone who has lived there 10 years . If you say you have then I know who you and you out of all people know that it is not all Tom and Karen but also the people that are dumped there.. I lived there, went to college and recently moved out.. I come by all of the time.. I know what still goes on there and most of the people there need mental health to come in and help.. Yes Tom has contracts with SS and takes the money, he also does not ask to be a dumping ground.. Is it the owner who robber Stewarts or fights with other tenants? Burglarizes the neighbors.. NO.. Tom has come up for inspection with the fire department.. Why have you not spoken up about the violations? I did when I was there.. If no one does these things then nothing is going to change..

I have called when I've witnessed crime, I've called when I was robbed, I've called when I was vandalized. The police repsonded and the record speaks for itself. Please stop blaming social services, and the jail. If Tom doesn't want to rent to these people then why does he? Is the government forcing him to take the money? The argument for the Manor being there a long time is just shortsighted idiocy. The neighbors, different Mayors, the Police, Fire department would all like to see the place closed but the "grandfather" argument keeps it open. The problem IS the Manor, not the neighbors. This pathetic attempt to sob story the argument smacks of pride in ownership. The time for this type of criminal vortex has to stop somwhere, sometime, and that time is quickly approaching. It's not just the neighbors who are fed up, it's the entire City, please relay to Tom and Karen (if your not sitting in the same room and chair with one of them already) and let them know that they can argue fained ignorance, and they can blame everyone under the sun.......but at the end of the day, THEY ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHO COMES AND GOES AND IF THEY AREN'T, THEN THEY SHOULDN'T BE MAKING A PROFIT! Your too quick to blame everyone else which makes everyone here believe that you are in fact one of the owners.....if not then the owners are pulling one over on you, sorry to be the one to break it to you.

The Manor is a blight and needs to be closed, if "my business can't cmprehend why then maybe he/she should go back to college.

I am not one of the owners but I know what I am talking about.. i had to live there due to Social Services putting me there due to unfortunate circumstances in my life.. I was going to college and I had to deal with a lot while I was there.. I understand the owners point of view that is why I stand up for them.. I also have seen for my self the blatant harassment by neighbors and constant bull by others who hear the words Elizabeth Manor and looked down on me.. I deserved none of it and neither do the good tenants who live there and there are a lot of them.. Many I still call friends..More than half of the house has good people.. I saw how Social Services dropped of people who were not fit to be in public, people who were right out of jail and then would try to hurt others.. Nothing the owner could do, he has to take them.. so before you judge and blame.. know the people you are casting stones about.. I also see Mike has liked the comments on here.. Mike,I was your neighbor on Wall street.. You talked to me and my children.. Many of the people you see around have lived or do live at the manor.. We are just like YOU...

Hello,

I only clicked this issue in favor of fixing it. There isn't a "like" function on See Click Fix.

Clearly, the people who live around this building have an issue with it.

If there wasn't a LEGIT complaint, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Truth is that I have even seen and heard things first hand as I'm on that street often. Things like what I heard just 2 weeks ago from people leaving that house at a very late hour.. " I'm gonna kill that !@#$%, and take her dope too!"

And with numerous people hanging out in front of the building at all hours, what do you think the neighborhood is gonna say? " O we just love having all these criminals on our block.. lets make them a cake?" No, the reality is that the house is a problem for the people who have to live around it.

We all know about it and instead of complaining or making excusses for it, the watch would like to promote fresh ideas to solve the issue. This is a great chance for the owners to listen to the needs of the people who MUST live around the building. I truley believe that Tom is there to help people who are in need, but it seems that neighborhood needs a change.. or at least a chance to be heard.

That being said. What are some solutions for this problem?

My idea is simple... get more staff. 1 or 2 more people to monitor the comings and goings of the tenents.

If the house is funded by the county or state whatever.. Then the contract with them should be modified to reflect the extra costs for the added staffing.

Just an idea.

My business; I understand there are good people living there and I have no issue with them. Like you said though, it's not filled with all good people and that is why there is a problem for the neighborhood. It's not an issue of looking down on anyone, believe me when I tell you that the financial stability of the home owners isn't that far off from where some of the residents of the Manor is. We aren't rich, we aren't stuck up, we are fed up with having to deal with a tumor on our street. It is 100% up to the owner to keep the criminal element out, and if he/she really wanted to do it they could. Instead they choose to take money from "contracts" and let the cards fall where they may. They may try to keep drugs and prostitution out, but clearly they aren't doing a good enough job. Everyone is very quick to place blame where it shouldn't be placed and that is the mark of ignorant self loather. The real blame has to be placed on the owner for lack of control, again, the police reports speak for themselves. The neighbors will not stop complaining unless there is nothing to complain about, and their intent is to close the place for good. A possible solution for the owners may be to invest 150k or so into the building to make it handicap accessible and fire ready and then turn it into a senior home. The next time you speak with the owner ask him why he doesn't do that, I can tell you for certain his answer would be that it's not cost effective. He's in it for the money, period. The basic point for the neighbors is that his bottom line is more important than being a good neighbor so as a group we are ready to see him leave.

There are constantly all kinds of people hanging out in front of that place. They stand there and curse and discuss topics like they're at an open AA forum. No child should have to hear or see this kind of behavior/language ever, and I know of at least two darling little girls I consider neices that live on that street. There are cigarette butts everywhere since the residents dont care whatsoever about the community. If I was stealing and raping my neighborhood, I would probably littler on it too. The house is in disrepair. It should just be bulldozed, then burned, then burned again. It is a blight on our community. I feel bad for any Kingston tax payer living anywhere near that cancer on our community. These owners must have a tough time in front of mirrors and sleeping. They are responsible for all the crap that occurs there and should be exiled from Kingston.

"My Business" - I have a dear friend that lives on that street. When I am at his house watching a ballgame, I see the traffic. I hear the voices. I smell the cigarettes, I feel the uncomfortableness after I lock his door behind me. If you dont see the bleeding, pus-filled, infected, gangrenous wound that this house is on that area, your education was worthless, sorry.

Amen John L!

I'll play the blame card for a moment. Our real estate agent didn't bring up the fact that there is a shelter for parolees and sex offenders on my street. So I think I'll blame him for the fact that I can't sell my house or move to change my "scenery". Pretty convienent and I didn't even have to think for myself on that one.

I didn't like any comments here.

What I did do was agreed that this problem needs to be fixed.

I believe that it is important to have many people discussing this issue. From the neighbors, the past and present tenents.

So what are some solutions to these issues? Seems to me that if the neighbors have so many problems with this building, then there is a reason why this is being posted.

I have personally heard drug deals happen outside of the building, i have also heard things like " I'm gonna kill that @#$%.. and take her dope too" This isn't hear say, this is actually what I have seen and heard.

When ever I had a problem with a tenent at the manor, I was able to call Tom and talk to him about it. The end result was the person in question being removed from the building.

But I also feel that it is the resoncibity of the owner to monitor the action of the tenents both in the building and outside of it.

If that means hiring more staff to do this job then the contract with the county or state, or who ever funds the building.

I think that if we all try to come to find a commen ground here, things can be fixed. It's time to think outside the box and make this happen.

If this can't get resolved, I think that the building will be in for a serious wake up cal.

The people who live around the building have LEGIT complaints, and to put them down for bringing to a public forum is wrong.

Find an answer here so everyone will come out on top.

The answer is to close it down, cut thier losses and provide a REAL service to the community.

To My business; Are you actually suggesting that the residents on the street should move away? In college did you learn about differential equations? The variables involved have a direct influence on the end result. If law abiding, tax paying, nurturing neighbors move out as a result of a blight, the blight will then spread like a tumor to those properties left vacant. This will off balance the equation and accelerate spread of the criminal element much the same way a tumor spreads inside the human body. Eliminating the tumor will set the balance in the other direction and create a healthy neighborhood, and possibly accelerate the growth in the opposite direction. Another way to look at it is simply by the numbers. Police reports and 911 calls to the Manor vastly outweigh those of other addresses on the street, both in frequency and severity. To balance this equation by eliminating the decending variable would provide a wave effect which would spread to the surrounding blocks and neighborhoods. I understand you loyalty to the owners for helping you in your time of need, but if you really want to help your area, your neighbors, you community, then realize the truth behind the numbers.

First of all, I have never put down anyone for speaking there mind. Second, do not insult my education.. I am a tax paying and law bidding citizen as all of you are.. I know that a few bad apples spoil the bunch and that is why the Manor has a bad reputation. Tom is also to blame for not always taking the appropriate action and he is also not quick to react. The Manor has 30 rooms that occupy 2 people per room. I know that 3 of those rooms are not used at the current time. If you get that many people in a house together you are going to have issues.. I do not hear anyone talking about the Washington Manor that has had it's share of problems.. Chiz has had her fair share of police calls and problems. If we want to have intelligent discussions about housing in Ulster County then we should look at all of the housing in this county.. Yes the Manor needs improvements, Yes it has problems. There are no SEX offenders living in Elizabeth Manor.. George Washington School is with in 500 feet of the house.. It is not permitted by law and the police check the house often.. I know this for a fact since I am an advocate for Domestic Violence and Crime Victims. Who ever posted this incorrect statement saying there is, is mistaken.. This is why the Manor has the reputation it has..

has there ever been sex offenders living in Elizabeth Manor? Ask the Sherrif, KPD, State Police, Neighbors, George Washington School, Daily Freeman, Parol Board. The answer is YES! The fact that they were removed "shortly" after having been placed there doesn't excuse the offense.

To My Business; No disrespect to your education, nor insult was intended. The reference was a reminder of and to make a point. I applaud your work with domestic violence and crime victims, it is to be respected and is very commendable. That advocacy should be alotted to the neighbors on this street as well. The owner of the Manor has never reached out to any of the neighbors, not once. I have talked with people that have lived on the street for 50+ years and they have never been approached by any of the owners, not once. If like want to address the housing issues with the County like you say you do, then the obvious approach is to eliminate each issue one by one. That way the advocacy can be focused instead of scattered. The Manor has earned it's reputation in much the same manner many things do, based on statistics and facts.

Sorry but My Business, you are not correct. There have been sex offenders living there in the past. How do I know this you may ask.. because Tom himself has admitted it to me during conversations with him. His reaction to that FACT has been good, the person or people were removed.

Even with this happening in the past.. those same laws were in place then and now. If it's happened before, whats to say it wouldn't happen again? Some things just slip thru and then get delt with accordingly when it is brought to the attention of the owner. This is a good thing. But don't act like this situations are being pulled from thin air.

And yes, this house of criminals (and sex offenders[in the past]) is less then 500 feet from the school where my kids go.. now that just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

At this point I believe that the burden lies soley on the owner to step up and show that he does indeed care about the neighborhood that this house located at. And cares about the concerns of it block.

Lets find a solution..

I apologize for insulting your education. That was unfair and uncalled for.
Funny that you bring up the Washington Manor. I live in very close proximity. The Washington Manor is only slightly better then the Elizabeth Manor, and for only one reason. The residents hang out and smoke cigarettes and have inappropriate conversations in the back of the building where they are not in plain sight of the neighborhood as opposed to occupying the entirety of the street right out in front, which I'm sure they would if it weren't for the fact that its Washington Ave and not Elizabeth Street. I presume they have ashtrays back there by their picnic tables too, as there are not butts covering every square inch of the surrounding area. Also, believe me when I tell you, there is not nearly the traffic near that house as there is at Elizabeth Street.
Otherwise there is no difference, Washington Manor is just another place for Ulster County to place undesirable burdens on society, and all of us who live near these places who have children fear the worst. This is why we want them closed for good, period. I beleive Washington Manor has at least one sex offender living in it full time, but i may be mistaken. All of these places hurt the community more than they help them. Dont even get me started.

I'll personally host the block party and bbq for all the neighbors when the Manor gets closed down.

I would like to ask all who oppose such housing of "People less fortunate then yourselves"..Where would you like them to go? Your attitudes strike me as very cold.. Your "Not in my backyard" mentality also hurts you as well as the community.. When you buy property you do not check out your surroundings to see what is around.. That also strikes me funny since I just bought property in another state and I am well aware of what is around me, what sex offenders are near by and what community I am going to live in.. All of this info is available and is a part of the public record, so is seeing if a sex offender lives at Washington Manor.. There is no offender listed.. By law they have to register.. and Chiz does report to the police if she feels one is living there..
Even the Level 1's( the lowest offenders).. Now my next question,, where are all of these people when the next meeting comes up.. I will be there.. Will you be? How do you close down a shelter or bring up concerns when the neighbors do nothing about it but complain and then sit back and let things happen. Mike is doing a great service with the watch.. How many will show up to support him to talk about both Manor's? Lets get the Mayor to address the issue, or Hinchey, lets bring it up at the meeting.. Lets see how many really want the shelter closed or just want to have something to complain about..

Now you're just asking ignorant questions and talking nonsense, and I wont be posting to you after this. My father always said, "Dont try to argue with someone who doesnt have the ability to comprehend." If you had a small child, I am sure your education has taught you that bringing them up next to one of these disgusting places is not good for them. Since you are so understanding of junkies and alcoholics and mental cases, perhaps you should open one up in your backyard.
I dont care where they go (Perhaps a job???), just go there, and dont steal anything, or scream obcenities, or litter. Just be decent, and pretend there is a child listening, as there is probably one within an earshot at both places.
I am not so fortunate myself, I am not rich, but I manage to keep myself out of half way houses and off of drugs and alcohol, which is a life choice, not an assignment.
The Kingston Neighborhood Watch Meeting is not the correct forum to bring up closing a half-way house. We watch and report. I should know as I have been to all of the meetings thus far. You obviously have not. This is a political issue for Ulster county regulators to correct, and they have been on notice. You dont think the mayor knows of this issue? C'mon man! All we can do is make sure the incidents are reported correctly to the police after we call them.
The sex offender moved into Washington Manor well after I rented my place. Had I known there was a soup kitchen so close that the riff raff flocks to in armies, I would not have rented there. My fault for not properly researching Kingston riff raff.
Lastly, you have no idea who you are even speaking to. This is an anonymous forum, I may already do things for the Watch, so dont go and assume things.

My business; The Manor WILL get closed down, and no matter what you try to twist or say to discredit the neighbors by saying their attitude is "cold" will have no impact on the final solution. Congratulations on moving out of state and good for you that you are aware of your surroundings, here's to the hope that your neighbors are as gracious and accomodating as Tom and Karen have been. Nobody wants crime in their neighborhood, drug dealers make way more money than we do, so to call them "less fortunate" is completely moronic.

not to mention they live off of our taxes, you know, the money we also pay to have police arrest them. Ironic isnt it?

You do not know if i have been to any of the meeting or not.. do not assume.. You know what that makes YOU.... I see the County Legislatures and our fine Mayor doing a great job.. I have lived in Kingston for over 10 years.. With this Mayor and the past one also.. Lets see the Manor get shut down,, and put the people where? Mid-town has always been a problem... I can order a pizza faster than the police response in my own neighborhood.. and I live in the HOOD... I have watched Neighborhood watches come and go.. I have belonged to one myself. Was threatened, my husband and my children.. Had to quit when they burned my car with a rag and a gas can on Vandeusen St in the 90's.. Call me sympathetic to junkies and alcoholics.. name calling.. such as you want to do.. I have them as friends and I understand there fight... I do not judge people who have less than me, UNTIL YOU HAVE WALKED IN THERE SHOES, DO NOT JUDGE..
Many in the Manor have jobs, go to school, are getting there GED's and are fighting there way out of poverty.. Some are on Social Security due to disabilities and some are there due to circumstance.. If some do the wrong thing , report them to the proper authorities, but do not blame all of them for the actions of a few..

I live on Elizabeth Street, and I'm the Vice President of the Neighborhood Watch. I've been reading all the comments and honestly there really isn't room for debate with respect to the Manor. The fact that "some do the wrong thing" is exactly the situation we as neighbors are trying to circumvent. A shelter for parolees does not belong on a block with all single family homes, wether it's been there 50 yrs or 5 months. City planners today know the reasoning behind why it's not a good idea. There are many vacant properties around the City which are vacant and in a proper location for monitoring by both City and County Law enforcement. If law abiding people who fall on hard luck need a place to stay fine, but you can't sugar coat a bitter pill because that's what the neighbors have been forced to swallow for decades. If anyone wants to discuss this matter with me personally, I will be at all the KNW meetings wearing my trademark neon yellow shirt. Take care. JD

JD...
You are absolutely correct, there is no room for debate. One of two things should happen, either the owner should listen to his neighbors and take the necessary steps to make serious corrections OR close. Now it is pretty apparent that Tom is aware of the neighbors displeasure (for lack of a better word) and has taken very little action to regulate. It appears he takes the money from his "contracts" and sinks very little back into his business. And let's be clear about this...it is a BUSINESS. If he wasn't making money then he wouldn't be there. So having said that, maybe hit a business where it hurts...it's wallet. I would do a little research...how is he operating? Non profit so he is not paying taxes? Make sure every "contract" that he signed he provided accurate information, try to get the contracts through the Freedom of Information Act. Try to find a lawyer that may do pro bono work and have him sink his or her teeth into it...it's a quality of life issue, property value issue, lots of things that would constitute a good lawsuit. I've seen people sue for a lot less and win. The good, law abiding, tax paying residents have the right to enjoy their property without fear and trepidation.
Calling the cops, keeping records of events, comings and goings, issues, starts a great paper trail...I would go from there. That's just my two cents, I think the time of being PC is over and to give the fine residents of Elizabeth Street (and the surrounding area) some relief!

Thank you K. The paper trail now resembles a roll of toilet paper....not the exepnsive kind either more like the Scotty 1000 sheet double roll. There are already several movements at hand to incur a drastic change. Without going into too much detail several of your suggestions have already been implemented. Thanks again for your support! JD

Awesome! Don't forget your video and still photo's!

as said above, the manor would be much better suited to affordable senior housing (or senior supports with staff, even better), which is always needed and more in tune with the neighborhood and local community.
running the business they do in a residential area, near the school no less, is insane.

there is no shortage of places in kingston that are not single family where the kind of shelter they are running now can exist.

"A person is guilty of a public nuisance (also known as common nuisance), who (a) does an act not warranted by law, or (b) omits to discharge a legal duty, if the effect of the act or omission is to endanger the life, health, property, morals, or comfort of the public, or to obstruct the public in the exercise or enjoyment of rights" -excerpt, Archbold, 2005.

The Manor, as a matter of public record, has demostrated as an entity that it can satisfy the requirements of the statement above.

Aside from the actual Police record, there is a shotgun effect of public nuisance issues which have an impact on the entire surrounding area. The block is subject to constant traffic, loitering, abusive language, confrontations both violent and non violent, drug activity, delapidated exterior building conditions, beeping taxi cabs, unusual foot traffic for a single family block, litter in all forms, emergency response vehicles on a regular basis, random building alarms at all hours, psychologically challenged individuals, theft, vandalism, etc..etc.

There is real meaning to the statement "shotgun effect". With a daily influx of quality of life violations the block is left almost de sensitized to the impact of these daily occurances. In other words we take it for granted that we need to be outside with our children at all times because we are in the foot traffic corridor. We accept that loud noise and foul language are a part of the fabric of the block. The overwhealming frequency of these violations tends to grey out the impact of a single offense. In a sense we as a society have accepted the Manor and all it's faults as part of being a resident of Elizabeth Street, and futhermore, "shame" on us for having moved there. This in an opportunity for not only the owner of the Manor, but for the enitre City of Kingston to step forward and make a difference. Single family homes, on single family blocks are what attract people to an area, especially near a school. Demolish the Manor, develop the property for one or two single family homes and give the residents of Elizabeth Street and future residents of the City a reason to believe that we care about the quality of life for our neighbors. The status quo is longer viable and sustainable. The Manor has had it's time, now lets let the people of this fine neighborhood have thiers.
Sincerely,
JD
Vice President of Kingston Neighborhood Watch & current homeowner on Elizabeth Street

JD-

You nailed it. No one could have possibly said it better!

In order to mitigate and remove the nuisance to comply with the law then Elizabeth Manor will have to cease doing business. Elizabeth Manor accepts government funds to house parolees, people on disability (for numorous reasons) and several other afflictions. If by contract alone the owner is incapable of screening clients, as was pointed out by former resident "my business", then the only way to mitigate the nuisance IS to close down. Elizabeth Manor cannot sustain a nuisance free environment without removing the cause, which by a former clients own admission, is currently beyond the owners control.

Taken from The Kingston Times

**** Kingston Times - Features 5/28/2009

Mind your manor Boarding house on Elizabeth Street magnet for police calls, neighbors' ire

By Jesse Smith

To most Kingstonians, 21 Elizabeth St. is just an Uptown address. But for the city's police force, it's one-stop shopping for everything from fight calls and parking disputes to warrant arrests and robbery investigations.

Elizabeth Manor, the imposing three-story brown stone building in the midst of a residential neighborhood off of Washington Avenue, is one of a handful of boarding houses in the city and, for police and neighbors, a near-constant irritant.

"We respond to a fair amount of calls there, persons who live there being investigated for crimes, complaints from the neighbors," said Kingston Police Chief Gerald Keller. "You could say it's a thorn in our side."

Police records show that police responded to the boarding house, which is home to about 50 people, most living two to a room, 99 times between January 2007 and April 2009. Another 27 police calls involved people who gave their address as 21 Elizabeth St. In 2007, there were 41 such calls, in 2008 there were 65 and so far this year, there have been 20. Keller said that not all of the calls involved criminal activity by house residents. But, Keller said, there is a well-established record of problems at the residence.

Most recently, Elizabeth Manor resident and career criminal John V. Coutant was arrested by the URGENT drug task force after he attempted to sell a gun to an undercover cop. The arrest led police to charge Coutant with a series of burglaries around Ulster County after they discovered loot from the crimes in his car. Last year, another resident of the boarding house allegedly robbed the Stewart's Shop on Boulevard, a short distance from the house. He was arrested an hour after the crime sitting on the steps of the house smoking cigarettes stolen in the heist.

Not easy to live with

For neighbors of Elizabeth Manor, complaints are mainly of a less dramatic, but nonetheless irritating, nature. Loud arguments, the odor of marijuana wafting from the house, residents blocking driveways with their cars and occasionally urinating out the windows led the list of gripes heard by reporters during a visit to the neighborhood last week.

"There's all kinds of noise, fights, drinking, smoking dope, they park their cars out front, party in the car and then throw the trash out in the street," said one neighbor who, like all local residents interviewed, asked to remain anonymous. "I can't let my 5-year-old granddaughter play on the porch because of all the [foul] language you hear coming from there."

According to another neighbor, the building is a frequent topic of conversation at neighborhood watch meetings, but so far the city has not responded strongly to their complaints. "It's a joke - you go have some juice and cookies, talk a lot of garbage about what goes on there, but then no action's taken," said the neighbor, who claims that he regularly spies residents of the house smoking crack on the fire escape late at night. "If they had decent people in there it would be all right, but they take everybody and anybody."

Several neighbors wondered why the residence has not run afoul of the city's nuisance abatement law. The law, passed in 2008, allows city officials to bring violators before a three-member panel with the power to levy steep fines for each day the problem continues. The legislation covers violations ranging from drug dealing and gang activity to noise and trash complaints. The law is administered by Ulster County sheriff's office Chief Civil Officer Don Ryan. Nearly a year after the law passed, no one has been brought before the hearing panel because, according to Ryan, in each instance the threat of further administrative action has been sufficient to get landlords to address problems reported at their properties. Regarding Elizabeth Manor, Ryan said that he could not comment on the situation because there has not, so far, been a referral for action by the hearing panel.

Housing of last resort

"John" who sat on the porch of Elizabeth Manor smoking cigarettes and playing a handheld videogame one afternoon last week, said that he had been living at the boarding house for nearly three years after a fire left him homeless. John said that many of the problems at Elizabeth Manor were linked to a large number of parolees at the boarding house.

"It's not only social service people living here," said John, who said he pays $400 a month for a shared room and three meals a day. "You have a lot of people here who are out on parole and if half of them are rehabilitated you're lucky. But I have to say, personally this place has been pretty good to me, decent people run it."

A woman who was sent to Elizabeth Manor by county Social Services after she was priced out of her home in Saugerties two years ago, said that the house was usually peaceful.

"Once in a blue moon somebody blows up, usually one of the guys on parole, but all in all it's not bad," said the woman. "The guys who smoke weed usually go outside, around the block to do it but sometimes you'll smell it coming under the doors."

A woman in the office at Elizabeth Manor referred all questions about the boarding house to owner G. Thomas Phillips. Phillips did not respond to a message left at his home in Hurley. *****

"the guys who smoke weed usually go outside (by the elementary school, or on the block where the kids can't play because of the scurge of the neighborhood) around the block to do it but sometimes you'll smell it coming under the doors." "Once in a blue moon (which apparently occurs at least once per week) somebody blows up, usually it's one of the guys on parol (who just got out of prison for who knows what and is dropped in a quiet single family home neighborhood) but all in all it's not bad." (not bad for a resident that has no other options, but bad enough for the Cheif of Police to call it a "thorn in our side" AND bad enough for the neighbors to keep a constant close watch on children, belongings, electronics, car stereos, snow shovels, outgoing mail, etc...etc...etc..

Hi Poster,

One of the other things you SHOULD do is collect as much information as you can about this situation.

To Accurately Report a Problem:
Make sure it is something you saw or heard yourself! Hearsay won't help legally. Try to take pictures or shoot a quick video. A picture IS worth a thousand words!
Take note of:

Time of day
Area, address, cross streets
Vehicle Color,Makes and Models
Describe where this takes place (e.g., basement, side of building, etc.)
Gender: Male or Female and aproximates age
Ethnicity: White, Black, Hispanic, Asian
Height
Weight
Complexion
Hair color & Hair style
Eye color
Facial hair Scars, tattoos or other identifiable marks
Identifiable traits
Distinctive clothes or jewelry
Accent if any

We also have made available this form that you can download to fill it:

http://www.teamdarcyinc.com/forms/complaint.doc

Just click the link and then either OPEN or SAVE the document. It's in Mircosoft Word and you can then print it and fill it out.

If you need more forms or information about Kingston Neighborhood Watch goto

http://www.kingston-ny-neighborhood-watch.com

Please forward completed form to:

Info@kingston-NY-neighborhood-watch.com

AND/OR

Ulster County Sheriff’s Office
Det. Lt. Ed Brewster, Det. Sgt. Brian Robertson, Det Sgt. Dirk Bodd
380 Boulevard, Kingston, NY 12401
Email to: ebre@co.ulster.ny.us
Phone: 845-384-6232

or Police Lieutenant Egidio Tinti
City of Kingston Police Department
Telephone (845) 331 4766
etinti@kingston-ny.gov
etinti@ucletg.com

Make sure you have a good lawyer.. people have rights,, and taking pics is a serious offense.. Hope you know what you are doing telling people this info.. if I get my pic take with out consent, you bet your sweet butt I will take legal action against who ever gave permission and who ever took it..

My Business-

Surely you cannot be serious. a million pictures are taken everyday of peole who do not suspect it. Do you really think a criminal caught on camera has the legal right to sue the photographer? How do you explain the papparazzi then? And further, are you trying to scare people into not reporting crime? Who are you, a crack dealer? What is wrong with you?

My Business makes a valid point, so it IS prudent to be weary of who you photograph, where you photograph them, and for what reason. That being said, I believe the information provided by Neighborhood Watch refers to a witness type action, which can be used as probable cause to detain a subject or subjects. It is also worth noting that just as we concerned neighbors have taken our wagons in a cirlce, the owners of the Manor are no doubt doing the same. People do have rights, that is no doubt the basis of our foundation as a country. I submit that just as the inhabitants of the Manor are afforded those rights, we as neighbors should expect the same. Our right to a nuisance free environment has been violated time, and time again. Moreover, the rights of the tennants of the Manor have been violated as well due to the lack of proper handicap access, fire prevention & egress, cramped living quarters, and unusally high rent ($400.00 a month to share a room?) and a lax attitude toward building maintenance. Pictures or no, video or no, there is a paper trail that could effectively wrap that whole building three times over that will eventually lead to it's demise. JD

Hi posters,

As you keep this interesting dialogue going, please keep in mind our Terms of Use (available here). Term 1 states:

You agree to not use the Service to:

1. upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable

Let's try to keep the SeeClickFix message boards as positive as possible. Negative and accusatory comments degrade the use of this service for everyone.

Thanks again for your concern and attention to making Kingston a better place to live.

Best,

Zak
Community Manager
SeeClickFix

Available here: http://www.seeclickfix.com/terms_of_use

JD-

I do not beleive that My Business has a valid point whatsoever. She is completely aware that we are speaking of photographing crime in a manner to protect our property and ourselves from people like her. There is nothing out there that says we cannot provide proof of who is commiting crimes against us. If some one was setting fire to her house, I doubt anyone who captures the image would be sued, and she knows this. Now if I went up to her windows and started taking pictures of the inside of her dwelling, then I can see her argument. However I am sure that she is 100% aware that this is not the case that we are speaking of and that she is just friendly with the criminals we wish to photograph doing illegal things. She keeps defending the bottom of the barrel as if she belongs there. If she truly went to college, she would be aware of such matters...

@my business

Good luck with that.....

If I see pics being taken of me while I visit friends at the manor as has been stated on here by YOUR VP. I will take what ever action that is within my legal right to stop this. I do not nothing to harass or intimidate, just state facts. It is obvious that if others have a difference of opinion on this comment board they are shunned on this site. I did not realize it was made for only those who want to agree with the Administrator or with the Head of the Neighborhood Watch. What a shame, and to then call me names, not knowing me. What does this show about YOU as citizens of Kingston.. If I do not agree with your ideas, I am a called disgusting names.. Maybe the Times Herald Record needs to see the disgusting action of this site and how it is run. How the GOOD people of Kingston turn on someone with a difference of opinion.. Tame your animals Administrator and Mike, I did nothing to deserve this treatment.. I speak for those who do not have a voice. I speak for friends, the innocent and the people who are scared to say anything because of YOUR Gorilla tactics..

My business...I believe in your right to your opinions and your right to privacy; however, there are serious issues with Elizabeth Manor. These shelters do serve a valid purpose and provide housing for those in need. Where Elizabeth Manor falls short is the complete lack of oversight and management of its residents.

Frequent appearance on the police blotters, residents of the manor being arrested for criminal activity, and the lack of a professional in-house monitor are serious shortcomings and need immediate attention.

Housing a sex offender in close proximity to a school in inexcusable. I place the blame squarely on DSS and the owners of Elizabeth Street Manor. This is against the law. If a government agency (DSS) either blatantly violates the law, turns a blind eye, or is just ignorant raises a very serious safety issue for our children.

The upkeep of the property is the shared responsibility of the owners and the residents alike. Take a good, hard look at the property. Is there trash around on the yards and curbs? How long does it take to clean up? Does it really require a lot of effort by a resident to pick up after his/her self? What about the oversight of the owners (who live in Hurley)? They have ultimate responsibility, not only as the property owners, but also as neighbors and citizens of our community to ensure that their vital role in keeping peace with the neighbors and being good citizens.

I am sure there are several fine residents of the manor who are trying to make a good living and better themselves. I am also sure that there are those in residence who are committing illegal acts (as evidence by the blotters and arrest records). The good residents living there should be taking a proactive stance. Report to the owners or police any evidence of illegal activity. They are first-hand witnesses being in house.

No matter what our background is, we all have the right to live and peacefully coexist. What we do not have the right to do, is to infringe upon the rights of others for peace and quiet, safety, and there right to exist. Loud music, unsightly/unkempt property, unsafe conditions (criminal activity) are not conducive to a healthy living environment.

Without a more proactive stance by the residents and the owners, the situation will only get worse. If the manor does close, please do not place blame on the neighbors or neighborhood watch group. Place the blame where it truly needs to be:

1. On the BAD residents committing illegal acts or just being bad neighbors.

2. On the owners for failing to upkeep the property and ensure a safe and peaceful environment for its residents and the neighbors.

3. On DSS, for their COMPLETE lack of oversight to ensure its clients are receiving the best of housing and an environment which is conducive to rehabilitation, allowing them to successfully integrate into our community.

It is clear that there are several neighbors and citizens who have a problem with Elizabeth Manor. Hopefully, the owners will address the issues at hand.

My Business, with all do respect don't lie about my posts.

"If I see pics being taken of me while I visit friends at the manor as has been stated on here by YOUR VP". - My Business Post

I would never take photographs without absolute just cause, so friendly visits are not on my list of photo ops.

Harrassment: Behaviour intended to disturb or upset.

"I will take what ever action that is within my legal right to stop this. I do not nothing to harass or intimidate, just state facts" -My Business Post

This statement can also be considered harrassment as well.

"The facts", My Business, are as follows: Police reports, arrest records, eye witness accounts, fire and building inspection reports, and testimony from present and former residents. To insult the Neighborhood Watch in an attempt to sway the issue and muddy the water would be using a similar tactic utilized by the current owners of the Manor. To perpetrate a threat such as you have in your posts suggests that you do not want to discuss the issue amicably. I did not flag your post as inappropriate because I want everyone watching this board to take note of the current situation on Elizabeth Street. We as neighbors are entitled BY LAW to live in a nuisance free environment. Elizabeth Manor is currently scheduled for a hearing before the CIty because there was just cause for this to happen, that's reality, not harrasment.
Please keep in mind that while you claim you'll do everything in your legal right to stop this, I will do everything within my rights as well.
I come to this argument with facts based responses, I have never insulted you, nor called you names. I even agreed with the prudent photo taking comment....although you failed to mention that. There is no room for name calling, and no room argument when it comes to this issue, the facts represent themselves. Even without any residents in the room, the City would still be presented with enough in the way of evidence that only one conclusion could be made.....close it down. JD

Ok MB..

I have been trying to remain on the sidelines from most of this conversations, but I feel you need to be more informed. Let me be VERY CLEAR and try to hear me and listen.

If you aren't doing anything criminal, you have nothing to worry about. This is cut and dry.

Not a single neighbor of the manor has any problem with helping people who need it. It's when the criminal elements effect the quality of life for the area.

Let me give you some information that might shed some light on the issues the neighbors have..

I spent some time at KPD yesterday and I recieved PUBLIC information about police calls to the manor and call thru out the city pertaining to the Manor. This includes calls to the manor and calls in Kingston where the people involved gave the manor as their address.

I have made a PDF for you to veiw...

http://teamdarcyinc.com/EMKPD.pdf

Now.. to be even clearer... the Neighboehood Watch is here to promote thinking outside the box... finding solutions to the problems in the city.

With that said.. in the time it took me to write this.. I have been in contact with the County Officials. I will be getting a list of housing options for people at the Manor in the case that the Manor is shut down. I have reached out to the Commisioner Mr. Roberto Rodriguez. he was left a messege. Hopefully i will hear back today at some point from him.

I have also contacted the head of the housing division Ms. Mary Jane Kaudsen. She will also be getting back to me about this topic.

Now, I'll say this again as I stated in a previous post..

We, the watch. are of the firm belief that it's up to Tom to step up and LISTEN to the neighbors. To ACT on their concerns and fears. The building is clearly in need of more staffing. More monitoring.

On a side note... your really threating to bring suite against a not for profit neighborhood watch? Really?? I suggest that YOU go and talk to your lawer about your rights. If your in a public place I can take as many photos of you as I like. As long as I don't slander

( http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/slander )

you, there isn't a law broken. I can also video tape you in a public place.. lets say I have a camera on my house with it facing the sidewalk right in front of said house... I catch you on tape doing a drug deal, beating your girlfriend, kicking your kid.. whatever.. I can us that to file charges against you and so can the police.. And I can use my footage in a court of law.

Only thing we can't do is zoom into your window and invade your private space. And I don't see me telling anyone to do that.

So don't do criminal activites and there won't be a problem...

There is no inherent "right to privacy" in a public place! I can take pictures/make videos all day and night in a public place with no fear of lawsuits. If I publish the photos/video, then I must have a signed release for each identifiable person in the photo/video - and, in some cases, for property. To photograph/video for evidence of a crime is not a violation of ny law or statute if done by a private citizen and *not* done at the request of a law enforcement agency (in other words, police can't circumvent the laws by getting someone else to photo/video for them). And, My Business, I sure can publish a picture of you without your permission if it is *news*!

And let me explain something else. I can't control what people post on See Click Fix, or how they post it.. I can only make suggestion.

And as you can see, see click fix has an option for flagging inappropriate comments. If you see a comment that you feel in crossing the line, please do click on that flag so that the people who run SEECLICKFIX will be made aware and remove it.

And I'm pretty sure that there were posts removed from this topic that violated the terms of use that SEECLICKFIX has made.

Thus the reason why Mr. Stone posted in this topic/issue.

BTW, some of the posts here seem *very* NIMBY. Is that really the answer? The complaints seem to be predominantly about illegal activity. Post by My Bussiness acknowledge that this illegal activity *does* occur but claim it's all the parolees. If that's the case, then wouldn't it make sense to change the way the county handles parolees? Shouldn't the owner of the bldg and the law abiding residents complain (and neighborhood residents as well) to those responsible for putting parolees in a residential area? As far as blanket name calling, just because someone is homeless or less fortunate than you does not make them "riff-raff!" For the person who said they would "throw the block party" when the place is closed - How about calling your county legislator and telling the county to stop dumping parolees in Kingston and specifically at Eliz Manor. Furthermore, move the parolees out. Then, Block Party Host, throw a block party and invite the *good* residents of Eliz Manor - who knows, you might meet an old friend, a classmate, or even a forgotten relative.

Well put.

The owners are under contract to social services, contracts that both parties signed. We can lobby the state all we want, we can lobby social services, the parol board, and the county but that won't solve the immediate issue. The only way to mitigate the situation is to close the Manor down, negate the ability for those contracts to exist, and then have them re-apply for zoning the way it should have been done years ago. The proper place for an apartment building with 30 rooms is among other apartment buildings, not in a single family neighborhood....that's not NIMBY, that's proper City Planning. The property does not currently have correct zoning for a boarding house, so follow the rules like all the rest of the tax payers do and re-apply....seems pretty simple to me. In the meantime, we take measures to properly place those who need the housing. JD

So, according to JD, all the variances in zoning granted in the city over the years should be negated and the affected businesses/multi-family homes shuttered until they reapply and meet *JD's* standards of "proper City Planning?" I guess there will be *many* people joining the ranks of homeless and/or unemployed - me included (my house is on a "non-conforming parcel").

I fail to see the logic behind an argument that says improper City Planning is ok so long as it's rampant and long standing. Our City government isn't perfect by any stretch, but anyone with even a small sense of environmental, social structuring and planning would not argue in favor of a shelter for parolees to be placed in amongst single family homes. It's common sense, not my opinion. If your property is zoned incorreclty, then get it fixed. If you are paying your taxes and there are no immediate issues with the change then there shouldn't be a problem having it changed, I'll even help you do it. JD
P.S. I never stated ALL variances, please respond correctly and factually.

No, you never stated ALL variances. That's exactly the point! You want "proper City Planning" only for *your* neighborhood. You want just ONE variance to be negated, to suit your desires. Apparently, your vision of "proper City Planning" is only for *your* neighborhood. All the rest of the variances ever granted are OK, as long as they're not in *your* neighborhood.

I have a variance for a "non-conforming parcel." It doesn't need fixing. But if you're going to negate ONE variance, then it stands to reason that ALL variances should be negated (for "proper City Planning"). Otherwise you're just being NIMBY and trying to move the problem away from *you*, not solve it.

You say proper City Planning would have a shelter in an area zoned for multi-family - in other words, not in *your* neighborhood, in someone else's. How about moving the shelter around the corner to Wall St or Washington Ave? Those are multi-family areas aren't they? Or, would you be OK with them tearing down Eliz Manor and replacing it with a Holiday Inn? How about another CVS - a *legal* drug store? After all, you *do* seem to be concerned with just that one variance.

And please respond correctly and factually! I never argued in favor of a shelter for parolees amongst single family homes.

I am one of the ones who has stepped forward to solve the housing problem. You may not know that so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. My idea is two fold, get rid of a nuisance property, and at the same time create a suitable living condition elsewhere. The fact remains that while the Manor is under contract to any organization, it is bound to accept what that organization hands out. That needs to change in order to mitigate the nuisance, and the only way to do that, is to close it down and start over. I'll be there to hammer nails for proper housing....General, will you? JD

One neighborhood at a time...If you thought of all the issues that had to be changed in Kingston it would be overwhelming. You have to start somewhere and it might as well be with Elizabeth Manor, then maybe other neighborhoods can step up and be heard, maybe people can step up instead of just writing about it...thanks JD and Mike!

I agree. The flow of ideas is great, but I feel that things are getting abit ..well reactionary. Go outside... take in some sun and come back with a fresh, clear head. We are all just trying to solve problems without creating more.

Deep breath everyone. :)

froggy-

You would be quite "NIMBY" if you and your children had to withstand all the quality of life issues that Elizabeth Street presents because of that cancerous tumor too. And now you want to argue about other zoning issues? No one brought up other zoning issues except you. We just want the manor shut down and if we have to resort to making it a zoning issue then we will. No one on this thread cares about your zoning issues or other zoning issues for that matter. We, btw, being the public, not the watch. I mean, c'mon man....

Seconded!

First, I have no zoning issues. You people fail to comprehend!!! That no one brought up "other zoning issues" except me is exactly the point. You say the only important zoning issue is yours!! Read your own posts over and try to be objective in comprehending what you read! You're saying that you want to negate a long standing zoning variance because you don't like your neighbor. You're saying you don't give a rat's behind about the rest of the city, just your own little street.

I'd be willing to bet that *most* of the people complaining bought their houses a long time *after* the variance was granted. It reminds me of the woman from NYC who bought a house on Foxhall Ave and then started complaing about trains. It reminds me of the people who buy a house in the flight pattern from an airpot and then complain about aircraft. Like these other people, you made a mistake and now you're crying that you want daddy government to come fix it for you. Get real! Grow up!

To my knowledge Elizabeth Manor doesn't have a variance and has been operating illegally.

This is a public nuisance issue. The zoning rules and violations are another matter which the City will address as well. The neighbors are fed up with it, and the nuisance is indisputable. I would like to remind everyone on here that this isn't just a recent issue, this nuisance has been around for several years. The reason why this peticular property is up for a nuisance hearing is due to the fact that the owner either refuses to, or cannot effectively mitigate the problem despite repeated complaints. JD

I could not have said it better General.. I have been reading the posts for the last few days and not commenting.. I am glad to see some one on here who has something smart to say.. I also wanted to respond to Mikes posting the other day ,that of the police blotter of Elizabeth manor. 5/5/10.. Provided by KPD.. It is pages of the same or similiar ID numbers for Elizabeth Manor. Do you think people can not read? It goes back as far as 2009.. It even has Roy Bagley on the blotter.. RIP ROY.. He was the unfortunate man who decided to take his life in front of the train on the overpass by Dunkin Donuts.. Roy was my friend and a good guy.. He had issues with depression and was unrelentlessly harassed by the neighbor across the street from the Manor.. Most of those calls are Medical even though it is not stated.. ( I know ,I lived there as previously telling you). I never said the house had saints living in it, but where would you like these people to go? I do not want to get into a debate with anyone over semantics.( YOU will not get a response). I also would like to ask , how on earth did you buy your houses near a shelter? Oh I forgot. I saw responses saying that people did not know it was a shelter or they did not know it was like that... What a joke.. Anyone in Kingston knows it is there.. I recently bought a home in another state.. I had a check list and made sure I knew what is in my neighborhood.. In my town, , county, state.. You buy your homes and cry you do not like the Manor even though it has been there, operating as it has, some say it has no VARIANCE AS A SHELTER..? Are you sure or is this speculation.. so many ,, maybe's..

Well the same question is pointed out,, Where do you put people who need shelter, low income housing like the Manor? As long as it is not in your back yard.... Same question,, same answer....

My Business; what neighbor across the street from the Manor was "unrelentlessly harrasing" Roy? I completely understand your feelings and actions, and honestly and sincerely want to know which of my neighbors harrased somone. As a member of the neighborhood watch I feel I have a responsibility to try and find out to keep it from happening again. Please come to the KNW meeting tommorow at City Hall, find me and give me some information. JD

Of course I know people can read.... I simply put that information out there for people to do so.

And, if you'd like, I can get how ever many years back you need. I kept it at 1 year to make it easier.

And like I said.. I have reached out to the people in the know about housing in Ulster county and Kingston. When I get all the information I need, I'll post it.

Medical call ARE stated in the blotter.

This is a public nuisance issue. The zoning rules and violations are another matter which the City will address as well. The neighbors are fed up with it, and the nuisance is indisputable. I would like to remind everyone on here that this isn't just a recent issue, this nuisance has been around for several years. The reason why this peticular property is up for a nuisance hearing is due to the fact that the owner either refuses to, or cannot effectively mitigate the problem despite repeated complaints. JD

I wasn't going to address the NIMBY comment due to the fact that the original poster insists on twisting statements instead of making constructive arguments. That being said, I believe the comment should be addressed as it absolutely not the case as it relates to me (with just a shelter on the block) so please allow me to explain. I purchased my house and was well aware that the Manor was on our street. At the time I closed, there wasn't a paper trail of nuisance violations to be read, nor was there a tangible reason to believe it was nothing more than a low income rental. The first few years we lived there we had no cause to find anything wrong with the place. The tide turned however and there was an increase in police calls and other nuisance type infractions. The neighbors on the block began to complain and for years we were told by the City Government that there was nothing they could do about it. Fast forward to last year when neighbors on the block met with Anne Marie Dibella (our alderwomen at the time) and Chief of Police Keller. At that time we were informed about the nuisance abatement law and notified that now we finally had a viable and lawful way to deal with our problem. This nuisance, as a matter of FACT, pertained to the current residents of the Manor as well because several of them expressed concern over their own safety and well being. The owner was made aware of the complaints and the nuisance law but made no real strides to mitigate the problem, as was made evident by the police blotter. This is factual information, not conjecture, but documented fact. Knowing there is a shelter on your street and still purchasing your property despite that fact doesn't make one short sighted, or stupid. It does in fact point out that the person or persons who do so (and there have been several in the past few years) have a vested interest in where they live and actually care about it. I understand that MB is moving out of the area and has made certain of thier surroundings which is what anyone would typically do when making a large purchase. That being said, what will MB bring to his/her surroundings? Will you attempt to be a good neighbor and assist those in need around you, or will make certain to keep the problems from landing on your doorstep? Will you embrace a low income area and make strides to improve the look, feel, and safety? In a perfect world we would be able to accept everyone into our backyards, depsite past wrongs and indiscretions. The reality of the situation at the Manor is that with that acceptance comes an element that cannot or will not be managed by the current owners. According to OUR alderwomen and the sherriff, the owner of Elizabeth Manor does not have to accept everyone that walks in the door with a check. To be intellectually honest about the argument, one must accept also, that they cannot then fein ignorance or innocence without ever having orchestrated proper due diligence. So in conclusion, your absolutely right that I don't want a nuisance in my back yard and the law says I don't have to put up with it. A shelter, fine, low income housing, also fine, but an un abated nuisance, never.

As for the zoning and variance issues. I ask only that the counter argument do this: Speak to managers of other shelters about conferences and seminars. They will tell you (as they have told me) that in other parts of the country planning and zoning as it relates to the placement of shelters is very specific. Consequenlty, when given the opportunity to properly plan a location they will never locate a shelter in amongst an all single family home environment, or for that matter a grade school. This is just information I have attained on my own because I was curious, if there is information to the contrary, I would be more than happy to check it out. If it would make others happy to hear that I am willing to help other people in other wards with safety, nuisance abatement, zoning issues, then so be it, but I believe I have already proven that by my actions. Again, this just to make a point, if you prefer to twist my words to make it seem like somthing else, have at it. If you prefer to have a real honest debate, present me with facts and that I can counter.

In closing, I feel that while we are having an online debate over a very important issue, I would like to point out another fact. Anyone on here knows who I am and can find me at any of the Neighborhood Watch meetings. Anonymous postings are valid, and for security reasons, sometimes essential, but one cannot rely on that information as factual. I will quote John 3:20.
"Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed."
This is not to say the counter point folks are evil, but to have a honest and factual debate, present actual evidence to the contrary(meaning that no nuisance exists) or don't post. The owners have not mitigated the nuisance, so the only solution to this is to close it down. Mike and I have been working on the availability for other low income housing if people get displaced, but if they do, you cannot blame the City, the neighbors, or anyone else BUT the owner of the Manor. At such a time when the nuisance can be mitigated, which might be impossible, maybe we'll see a tangible improvement to our quality of life as a CIty of neighbors.
Thank you,
JD

Correcting the link

http://www.teamdarcyinc.com/complaint.pdf

"Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed."
Not everyone believes that religious crap!

Conducting a customer survey is crucial to understand better the projected drug sales for CVS Pharmacy in 2023. CVS can gain feedback on their preferences, needs, and expectations by gathering valuable customer feedback.
To incentivize participation in the survey, offering a chance to win $1000 can encourage a higher response rate and ensure that the feedback received is comprehensive and representative of the diverse customer base. This prize will motivate customers to participate and demonstrate CVS's commitment to listening and valuing their opinions.
CVS Health is running a separate website https://www.cvshealthsurvey.page/ for an online customer experience survey so that they can know the customers' feedback and suggestions. For feedback sharing, lucky customers can get a $ 1,000 CVS gift coupon to redeem on their next visit.