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  theandreatodd (Utilisateur inscrit)

  A fourth option is a round-about, that could also help morning and evening high traffic flow for people in cars as well as people on bikes and on foot.

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  Reconnu DPW Pine Customer Service (Membre officiel vérifié)

  Thank you for reporting this issue. The Department of Public Works will now begin its investigation into the matter.

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  That Guy (Utilisateur inscrit)

  

  I see this all the time... light fully red for southbound traffic, people just blow it at full speed.

  There is a 25mph sign well in advance of the intersection, but if traffic is moving nobody slows down.

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  Beth Saunders (Utilisateur inscrit)

  I second everything the original poster writes here. I bike with my two kids to school in the warmer months through this intersection, always waiting for the pedestrian signal. Measures to force southbound cars to slow down are overdue.

  In the winter we drive, and both my spouse and I have almost been hit driving eastbound, by drivers flying through a red light heading south. The city should take action before it’s too late.

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  Asatryan (Utilisateur inscrit)

  I agree with the original poster - this intersection is dangerous for foot, bike, and vehicle traffic, largely IMO due to the speed maintained by many vehicles coming off the Beltway - the vehicles don't slow appreciably before hitting Park St or turning north onto Manhattan Drive.

  A traffic calming measure BEFORE the intersection might be the most effective - folks aren't doing well with transitioning from 50 mph to 25 mph on their own.

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  That Guy (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Park St south of Manhattan should also be narrowed to one lane. Only one of the two lanes coming off the 127 is permitted to go straight, so the double wide receiving lanes only help encourage speeding, and make the pedestrian crossing twice as long as it needs to be.

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  BurlingtonVTRegisteredReporter (Utilisateur inscrit)

  After your thorough investigation, bring signs, speedbumps, and have a police car parked visibly at the intersection. Do it before someone gets hurt, please.
  (I presume none of the police use this intersection?)

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  Strong Neighbor (Utilisateur inscrit)

  I couldn’t agree more! My husband and I walk this same route daily with our nine year old and it is a regular occurrence (at least three to four days weekly) that someone runs a red light. Normally we’d consider letting our fourth grader walk the ten minute walk alone or with a friend but we don’t feel safe doing that because of this intersection. Thank you for bringing attention to it!

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  Susan Munkres (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Having biked with my child through that intersection many times, it is completely terrifying and probably the single biggest barrier to independent child/teen mobility in the neighborhood. While many suggestions listed in the comments are wonderful, I want to echo the original poster's suggestions, all of which are QUICK, SIMPLE and RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVE, as they do not require altering the lanes.

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  KateM (Utilisateur inscrit)

  I agree wholeheartedly. This intersection is dangerous for walkers, cyclists, and drivers. The uniqueness of the situation — the fact that cars moving at highway speed exit directly into a neighborhood with no ramp or transition — calls for a unique solution. The fact that school age children cross this intersection twice a day make it all the more pressing. Thank you to the original poster and to the City in advance for addressing this urgent situation.

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  J S (Utilisateur inscrit)

  I also walk my kids to school via this intersection and see someone run the red almost every morning. It's not an accident waiting to happen (there already was a pretty serious vehicle collision there on Green Up Day)- it's a pedestrian death waiting to happen. The 'no turn on red' sign and pedestrian signal put in a few years ago are helpful but not nearly enough. Aggressive traffic calming is needed on 127, well before the intersection, to consistently bring vehicle speeds down from 50 to 25 mph. It's simply not a good design to have a highway empty into a residential neighborhood with no real measures to reduce vehicle speed.

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  K8 (Utilisateur inscrit)

  This intersection has been a significant problem for our family as well. I support all of the solutions that have been suggested, many of which are easy and inexpensive. I want to point out one more aspect that hasn’t been mentioned: lack of visibility. It’s impossible to see if cars are approaching that intersection from 127. Pedestrians have to rely on the walk signal because the greenery growing up the fence blocks our view of the off ramp. Knowing that we cannot rely on drivers to obey the lights, the walk signal cannot assure our safety. Crossing that street with two young children feels risky every time.

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  Anonymous (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Route 127 needs to be controlled BEFORE the Manhattan/Park intersection. It ends in a residential area and school route, yet drivers are allowed to treat the neighborhood as an extension of the highway and always will unless something structural is done. Signage is a waste of materials and space, as the current 25mph signage approaching the intersection proves. Demanding reductions via speed bumps or rumble strips before the intersection is necessary. Furthermore, the entrance onto Park Street must be reduced to one lane, as the current two-lane arrangement encourages speeding. Also, make the pedestrian crossing light more than 5 seconds.

  Every single time I walk my kids to school and back, I witness multiple vehicles run the red light. If pedestrians chose to exercise their rights, by simply following the lights and rules established by the City, there would be a daily body-count at this intersection. This and North Champlain are long-known problems that are simply not being addressed. I have witnessed collisions at Park, I have almost been hit crossing Park, and I have actually been hit crossing North Champlain. DO SOMETHING ALREADY. My kids need to get to school safely.

  2019-09-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  RTG (Utilisateur inscrit)

  I agree 100% with Dov’s post. That intersection has been a challenge for years! The walk light provides pedestrians with a false sense of security. I have watched folks run that light at high speeds at all hours. Please take action before someone gets hurt.

  2019-09-10 · Marquer Flagged
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  Benjamin R (Utilisateur inscrit)

  I could not agree more with Dovs thoughtful assessment of this intersection. My family, including two school-age children, are regularly concerned by this intersection and shocked at how many people blow through it going way too fast. Any of the simple measures that were mentioned in the original post would go along way to increase the safety of this intersection for the families that live near it.

  2019-09-16 · Marquer Flagged
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  NorthChamp (Utilisateur inscrit)

  I suggest a DPW traffic management request petition: https://www.burlingtonvt.gov/sites/default/files/DPW/TrafficCalming/Petition.pdf

  2019-09-16 · Marquer Flagged
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  That Guy (Utilisateur inscrit)

  The normal Traffic Calming / petition process currently has a 2-3 year backlog of requests. I’m hopeful a solution can be found without having to wait that long.

  2019-09-16 · Marquer Flagged
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  NorthChamp (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Also, I had been working on the planning for a two-way two-lane bike lane on N Champlain. I wonder if this could be tied into that somehow.

  2019-09-16 · Marquer Flagged
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  Traffic Signal Engineer (Membre officiel vérifié)

  In April this year Public Works received a complaint about the next signal down at Manhattan & Champlain. Part of the complaint was people speeding off the Beltline and turning onto Manhattan. Went out to check, take pictures, and measure sign distances on the Beltline and was surprised to see there was no speed limit 25 as you approach Park & Manhattan southbound. These apparently had been removed in a 2012 VTrans update to the intersection. The new signs (or lack of) seem to have escaped notice. The complaint was correct in that someone coming off the Beltline and turning left onto Manhattan would not be advised of the 25 MPH speed limit until beyond Champlain. We reestablished the 25 MPH ahead sign, the 25 speed limit sign, and reconfigured the signal ahead sign. We are back to a "proper" signing of the approach. A red traffic signal is the ultimate "calming" device in our arsenal. There is nothing more extreme than this. We don't have spikes or barriers that pop up out of the road when the light goes red. From the comments above it is clear there is a lot of interest in this topic. I would be very surprised if Burlington Police were not receptive to this local interest, especially if it happens regularly at certain times of the day. Years ago we set up road tube counters in front of Mater Christi School on Mansfield Avenue in response to speed complaints. Sure enough, we saw a couple of upper 30 MPH cars recorded, and even a 41 MPH car in a 25 zone! Passed this on to BPD, and an officer with radar issued tickets. It would be very easy to catch red light runners downstream of the signal, either on Park Street or Manhattan. The signal is clearly visible from a distance.

  2019-09-17 · Marquer Flagged
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  SaintPauliGirl (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Thanks for addressing this neighborhood safety concern!

  2019-09-18 · Marquer Flagged
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  Beth Saunders (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Traffic Signal Engineer - is this an official response? We are reporting that the red light coming off of 127 is NOT working to keep kids, pedestrians, and frankly other cars safe crossing this intersection. Other measures to slow cars down on that highway are needed before they enter a residential neighborhood. We need something to change. A cop there would certainly be able to issue a few tickets, but it doesn't solve the bigger issue.

  2019-09-18 · Marquer Flagged
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  Anonymous (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Such a belittling insult of a response to a legitimate concern that the citizens have provided multiple realistic solutions to. I guess it's actually "see, click, and tough luck".

  2019-09-18 · Marquer Flagged
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  BurlingtonVTRegisteredReporter (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Okay - so was that the whole response? Was it "tough luck" or was it "we're working on it"? I can't tell - but as you can see MANY people agree about this, so let's get something going before someone is flattened, please?

  2019-09-18 · Marquer Flagged
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  That Guy (Utilisateur inscrit)

  The response is: "the intersection is functioning as designed"

  Not sure that is the official response from DPW, or just the signal engineer.

  2019-09-18 · Marquer Flagged
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  OldVtr (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Designed BY commuting drivers FOR commuting drivers.

  2019-09-18 · Marquer Flagged
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  BurlingtonVTRegisteredReporter (Utilisateur inscrit)

  It's "functioning as designed"? Well, with all these complaints I reckon it was wrongly designed!

  2019-09-18 · Marquer Flagged
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  Missa Aloisi (Utilisateur inscrit)

  

  This intersection needs to be re-designed. It is FAR to wide which allows drivers to speed through it. Narrowing it is an effective (cheap) way to slow people down. The approach to this intersection also needs to be studied as visibility is ziltch. Cars coming off the belt-line have a mere second of visibility before they are in the intersection. This is a dangerous intersection and heavily walked by kids and families to and from school. There are no barriers between the road and the sidewalk (and the sidewalks are the most narrow ones in town) It seems like adding a sidewalk to the north side of the street and bike lane (also a problem at this intersection) and moving the stop back could be great start. 127 needs to be redesigned...I'm not a traffic engineer but the sketch attached seems like a great place to start.

  2019-09-18 · Marquer Flagged
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  Clos DPW Pine Customer Service (Membre officiel vérifié)

  The Department of Public Works is making two new requests to assign to the appropriate departments for investigation. SCF#6694902 & 6695313. Thanks for helping to keep Burlington a great place to live and work.

  2019-09-19 · Marquer Flagged
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  Traffic Signal Engineer (Membre officiel vérifié)

  Very sorry about the negative reception of my comment above. Made the comment Tuesday, was away at class Wednesday through Friday, dealt with a very full inbox yesterday. I can see in hindsight how my comment was seen as a sort of brush-off. Again, my apologies. I deal mainly with signals, and the biggest worry and concern I got out of the comments above was red light running. There are any number of things that might be considered to be deployed as traffic calming measures. Have a few ideas of my own. All of these take time to plan, purchase, and install. Based on the above comments, red light running is a problem happening NOW, and should be addressed immediately. That was the intended focus of my message. First part - there was an earlier problem reported where we found a gap in signs on the Beltline. We addressed that. Second part - red light being ultimate calming device. We don't have devices that can outright prevent red light running. Everything about calming is of secondary importance if people are running the light NOW. We can talk about future calming measures, but if the light is being run it should be dealt with immediately. BPD is the one to contact to put a dent in this. Third part of my comment above was to pass on my experience that BPD does respond, if there are specifics they can act on, and if the information they receive shows that their presence is needed. Several cars over and over daily ought to be of interest to them. This should be communicated first hand from the people that actually witness these things. Imagine the kind of information that will be asked for. What time? What direction were they going? What color car? Could you see the driver? Etcetera, or any other piece of information that would help in pursuing this problem. Let's discuss possible future traffic calming measures. But let's try to take care of this red light running problem NOW. That is what I was trying to convey.

  2019-09-24 · Marquer Flagged
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  DPW Public Information Manager (Membre officiel vérifié)

  Edit: Duplicate Post

  2019-10-11 · Marquer Flagged
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  Réouvert DPW Public Information Manager (Membre officiel vérifié)

  Due to ongoing monitoring and evaluation of this area, we are reopening this request. It should not have been closed - we apologize for the error.

  We are actively evaluating this intersection, any potential remedies and requesting additional police presence.

  Thank you.

  2019-10-11 · Marquer Flagged
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  Reconnu DPW Public Information Manager (Membre officiel vérifié)

  Thank you for reporting this issue. The Department of Public Works will now begin its investigation into the matter.

  2019-10-11 · Marquer Flagged
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  The Cudneys (Utilisateur inscrit)

  I would be grateful if the conversation about this intersection could also address how a westbound bike commuter ought to navigate the lanes/lights. My daughter was hit by a car turning right on red from N. Champlain onto Manhattan when she tried to cross N. Champlain with a green light from the sidewalk. So then my son opted to bike in the road and got buzzed by a car that screamed obscenities as it flew past him onto the Beltline. This is really the only logical route for any high school students living in the Old North End who want to get to school on foot or bike. I also bike commute through this intersection almost daily and can vouch for all the complaints about red light running.

  2019-10-22 · Marquer Flagged
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  Fix BTV (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Putting up signage will not do anything as there already signs and signals that are constantly ignored. This area needs to be redesigned to prevent high speed traffic from even occurring. If you leave wide open lanes with no obstructions people driving cars by nature tend to drive as fast as feels comfortable which is an unsafe speed for people on bikes and people walking.

  2019-10-24 · Marquer Flagged
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  BurlingtonVTRegisteredReporter (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Why don't they shove some of those cute planters and concrete curb-loops into this intersection? Or make it a roundabout? Needs a redesign alright!

  2019-10-24 · Marquer Flagged
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  That Guy (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Checking in on the status of this intersection. Met with DPW staff last year, a number of potential steps were identified that could be taken in the short term. Temporary radar speed signs were place for a while, but those have long since been removed. Kids are back to school, people in cars still routinely blow the red light here. At a minimum, the fence on the NW corner needs to be removed/lowered & brush trimmed so there is increased visibility for all road users.

  2020-10-07 · Marquer Flagged
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  Anonymous (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Traffic control is desperately needed here, although I disagree with the methods proposed. Vegetation is a form of traffic control. I think that to open up the line of vision would inspire yet more approaches at 50mph. I also want to cease compromising greenery to vehicles and think that to lower/remove the fence would invite the corner to become even more of a drive-by dump. Control needs to occur within the road that is need of being controlled. Speed cushions need to be constructed at the end of 127, which should be possible, as it is a 35mph zone entering a 25mph zone. Furthermore, the single lane of southbound traffic coming off of 127 is invited to speed into two lanes of Park Street. That is absurd. The entrance to Park Street at 127 should be confined to one lane, so that pedestrians are not crossing two lanes of traffic in 5 seconds. Thank you for revisiting this request!

  2020-10-07 · Marquer Flagged
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  Traffic Signal Engineer (Membre officiel vérifié)

  

  Received the radar feedback sign September 9th, which is here in our shop. Somewhere in the chaos that is always the end of construction season, we will install a concrete base for it at the south end of the Beltline. Radar sign installation will follow major signal work at St. Paul & Howard that must be done before the ground freezes. With the concrete base in the ground, we are not constrained by weather to get this up. Best guess now is mid to late November.

  2020-10-07 · Marquer Flagged
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  BurlingtonVTRegisteredReporter (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Obviously something is wrong with this system. SeeClickFix indeed! Dozens of complaints and an excellent series of suggestions in a diagram/photo by Missa Aloisi, which I just read.
  Excuse the caps lock: THIS WAS THOROUGHLY DISCUSSED ONE YEAR AGO and the police and DPW do NOT care about you and your children! Please - prove me wrong.

  2020-10-07 · Marquer Flagged
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  Anonymous (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Thank you City for the pending sign installation, but, ultimately, signage ASKS people to change their behavior, but does nothing to physically control an issue. This will be yet one more ask (a new sign) in a series of asking (the already existing signs/lights) that does not actually address the base issue. That issue is that we all know that drivers will continue to speed through this intersection unless something is physically done to control the matter.

  2020-10-07 · Marquer Flagged
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  Dov Stucker (Utilisateur inscrit)

  I appreciate folks re-opening the dialogue about this intersection. I sent an email to DPW decision-makers in May that received no response. Perhaps See Click Fix is a better way to communicate with those who determine our city's transportation priorities. Edited for brevity, my email said the following:

  *****
  Reducing speeds coming off of 127 will undoubtedly have a huge impact, but there is another design question which also feels relevant: the safety of the East-West crossing at that intersection itself. When we met with DPW on-site, you mentioned that one approach could be to create a "raised crosswalk." This would be amazing, but there is another simpler design change that would be easy, costs nothing, and would greatly improve the safety of that crossing: lengthening the crossing time for pedestrians.

  A few days ago, my daughter and I were crossing the intersection and, unprompted, she said "Why do you only have 5 seconds to get across? By the time you look to make sure no cars are coming, there are only a few seconds left." She right. Especially given how poor the sight-lines are (which is even more true for school-age children), it takes several seconds to ensure that the crossing is safe, and by that time, the light has nearly changed again. Increasing the time for pedestrians by even 2 seconds would have an immediate impact.

  **********

  It has been a year since twelve [12] children under the age of ten attended the DPW Commission meeting, advocating for a safe route to school. Cars still speed through the intersection, and regularly enter a residential area at 10-15 mph over the speed limit. This is fundamentally a design problem. The good news is that this can be redesigned. There have been _many_ insightful suggestions in this thread--as well as many that have come from DPW itself. Unfortunately, a comprehensive solution has not been undertaken.

  Elementary students return to school four days/week in a few weeks. It would be wonderful to know that their safety has been addressed--and that one of Burlington's most dangerous intersections is safe for cars, bikers, and pedestrians.

  2020-10-07 · Marquer Flagged
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  DPW Public Information Manager (Membre officiel vérifié)

  Hi Everyone - Thank you for all of this feedback, we know how important this is to you. We would like to get back to you with an update next week. Thank you for your patience and we will update this thread soon.

  2020-10-09 · Marquer Flagged
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  Dov Stucker (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Looking forward to hearing an update. Thank you for your engagement.

  2020-10-17 · Marquer Flagged
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  DPW Public Information Manager (Membre officiel vérifié)

  Thank you all for your patience. We appreciated the on-site meeting with the community last year. We want to update you on actions taken since then and some upcoming work in this vicinity to further enhance pedestrian safety. We know other suggestions have been made above this comment, so have tried to be responsive to those down below as well.

  - The southbound red clearance from the Beltline was increased from 1.0 to 2.0 seconds so as to better allow vehicles to clear the intersection before the E/W pedestrian walk phase across Park St is illuminated.
  - The east-west pedestrian signals were installed and activated in mid-June on North Champlain St
  - A temporary radar speed feedback sign on the southbound Rt 127 intersection approach was put up earlier this year for several weeks and a permanent radar speed feedback sign will be installed at the same location by approximately late November
  - The current pedestrian signal at Park allows a 13 second phase (5 seconds walk, 5 seconds flashing don’t walk, and 3 second buffer before Manhattan (parallel) gets a green) to get across this somewhat narrow crossing. This is one of the few exclusive pedestrian crossings in the City.
  - We are communicating about next steps with the fence owner - the State of Vermont – with the goal of removing the fence and lengthening sight lines if we can obtain their permission.
  - We will also communicate the need for vegetation clearing to our partners in the Parks Department
  - We obtained regulatory approvals from Public Works Commission to decrease the speed limit coming off of the Beltline onto Park Street in a tapered manner and we have signed the transition accordingly
  - We are working with our consultant on designs for further potential improvements to the geometry of Manhattan Drive and the intersections of North Champlain and Park Streets. Public meetings for that work will be hosted this winter with the goal of making initial adjustments in 2021.

  We understand how important pedestrian safety is to you - and for the children who use this area.

  2020-10-17 · Marquer Flagged
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  BurlingtonVTRegisteredReporter (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Vegetation clearing? How will that affect the speed of cars? You mean, the drivers can't see anything, so they don't slow down for the speed signs? Or speed bumps? Hmmm.

  2020-10-17 · Marquer Flagged
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  DPW Planning NL (Membre officiel vérifié)

  Issue 6694902 has been marked as a duplicate of this issue.

  2020-11-12 · Marquer Flagged
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  iceu (Utilisateur inscrit)

  time to end this thread ....if the current employee being paid by the city to know how and what to do for this issue is not doing it, then replace them with someone who will earn the tax dollars being spent/wasted commenting on this thread.
  make a decision city folks!!

  2021-03-10 · Marquer Flagged
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  That Guy (Utilisateur inscrit)

  "a permanent radar speed feedback sign will be installed at the same location by approximately late November" - Hi, tomorrow is May 1st. Kids still walk to school through here every day. Can we please get an update?

  2021-04-30 · Marquer Flagged
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  NorthChamp (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Agreed, I wish we could get a radar speed feedback sign over on North Champlain as well. I think the addition of bike infrastructure through that area that is being planned will help. I encourage everyone to go take a look at it on the DPW website.

  2021-04-30 · Marquer Flagged
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  Traffic Signal Engineer (Membre officiel vérifié)

  

  The previous project in front of this was St. Paul & Howard. New signals were turned on March 25th. One of the last things to do was remove the wood pole supporting the former signal span cables. The pole used to be prominent in the foreground of the picture. We stripped the pole of its equipment. Later it was removed by BED. That project is done.

  2021-05-03 · Marquer Flagged
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  Traffic Signal Engineer (Membre officiel vérifié)

  

  The radar sign is being assembled on our bench. The angle does not do justice to the length of the 13 foot pole, which hangs about four feet off the end of the bench. In the back are the large cardboard sheets that protected the sign during shipment. One of those is being used to double check the alignment of the sign in its final position versus the pole base. Was hoping this would be up last week. We are expecting sometime this week.

  2021-05-03 · Marquer Flagged
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  Drew St neighbor (Utilisateur inscrit)

  While the radar signage has clearly made some difference, I regret to report that I am still entertaining/embarrassing my offspring by hollering at drivers running the red light while we are trying to cross this intersection. My ire has been on display on three consecutive recent mornings on the way to school. A post above by the DPW Info Manager notes that there is a southbound red clearance time of 2 seconds, and a 13 second period for crossing. In addition to all the other excellent suggestions submitted by my neighbors over the course of this discussion, I would request consideration of further lengthening the southbound red clearance time so that any driver blasting through a red has a better likelihood of being out of the way before the walk signal is illuminated. While 13 seconds may feel like a long time to engineers, it does not feel long to children. Small kids are very aware that they have a quick window for crossing, and it remains perfectly plausible that an antsy kid could step out right when the signal turns, while a car is still oncoming. DPW might also consider posting a public safety message to the Front Porch Forums in the NNE, reminding commuters utilizing 127 that there are neighborhood elementary school kids in that crossing every day. There's been progress on this issue, but we aren't there yet.

  2021-09-07 · Marquer Flagged
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  That Guy (Utilisateur inscrit)

  Last I heard we're looking at Spring 2022 for any updates to Manhattan/N. Champlain as outlined in draft DPW plans that were reviewed this year, which I think includes the intersection with Park. Agreed that things are "better" but still bad, especially at that specific crossing for pedestrians. Seems like DPW could do something with available quick build materials to reduce the crossing distance to one lane, since technically there only needs to be one receiving lane on the Northbound side.

  2021-09-07 · Marquer Flagged
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  That Guy (Utilisateur inscrit)

  *edit... southbound (where the crosswalk is)

  2021-09-07 · Marquer Flagged
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  Burlington, VT (Membre officiel vérifié)

  Thank you for this update. We will look back into this issue and update you as soon as we can.

  2021-10-26 · Marquer Flagged
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  Holder (Utilisateur inscrit)

  This content is currently blocked. The content is either under review by SeeClickFix or has been confirmed by SeeClickFix for violation(s) of SeeClickFix Terms of Use (https://www.civicplus.com/terms-of-service). Content that aligns with SeeClickFix Terms of Use will be posted, and content that does not align with our Terms of Use will not be permitted for public viewing.

  2022-01-03 · Marquer Flagged

Les commentaires publics et les changements d'états ne sont pas disponibles pour ce problème.